http://i65.tinypic.com/nbenmq.jpg


The case for the 797 would be a dual isle aircraft that burns less than the 757 it is replacing, and is sized enough to replace the 767. As sailingfun said months ago, the Asian carriers want cargo space, so they will opt for the 787 anyway. The case for the 797 is pretty small.


As a side note, the A350neo is going to be offered for sale soon. I expect Delta to get that plane.

So why aren't we comparing the 787-800 to the 767-300ER?

It should be compared with the 767-200. Comparing a stretched version with a base version is not apples to apples.

How many 767-200s are still around in passenger service vs 767-300s?

If the stretched version of one is of a similar size as the base version of another it is quite valid to compare them to each other.

By your logic the 757-200 shouldn't ever be compared to the 737-900 when discussing performance.

There really is no value for Delta to purchase any Boeing aircraft going forward. The discussion is probably moot. I would look at the A225, A321XLR, and A350neo as the next purchases by 2025. Further boosting the maintenance relationship with Airbus should also be a major priority. Dump the CRJ 200s, 767s, 717s, 757s, 777s, all MDs, and some 73 7/8s.

There won’t be very many 787-800’s in service in 20 years. Hardly any are being sold now.

That’s a neat graphic. Didn’t really understand the differences. MOM looks pretty good for us - business case for BA, not so much. :(

Great. Let's just change branding to Air France.

We need the 225, but Airbus doesn't. Neither does the rest of the world. Just us.

We paraded our 717s and 90s around as an alternative to buying new technology, which we are just too good to do, and in a blink of an eye watched the neos get 6000 orders and the max 5000, for 11000 total. Of which we secured 100 321neos and an option for 100 more. Out of 11000. But we have 90s and 71s! Whoops.

I think we kind of screwed up.

And I think Airbus will balk at replacing the 320neo with the 225 especially if the max really takes a long term beating and the 320neo keeps printing money for Airbus. And by the time the 225 is designed and tested it's based on a 25 year old design that doesn't match the thousands of other Buses, and Airbus loves to promote commonality.

If Airbus wanted something new they'd probably design it themselves, they have the money. And they're not even working on it. We need to buy 320neos, while we can.

Actually, you know who needs the 225?

Boeing.

A320neo orders from wikipedia

737Max orders from wikipedia

A220 orders (we have 90) from wikipedia


And Moxy has 60 and Republic has 40.

What about the JetBlue order for the 220-300?

Over the last few years, the MAX8 has been outselling the 320NEO because it has better CASM. This is due to it having a few more seats vs the 320NEO. The 320NEO has been rumored to grow by 10-20 seats. That would give it superior economics to the popular (not at the moment) MAX 8. This also makes space for the 220-500 business case. Either way, a -500 won't come until the A220 supply line matures. Could be a while, or never. But when the CEO says "In the future Airbus is going to want to bring on the 500..", it's not just unsubstantiated fan speak.

So you have potentially by seats :
110-120 =A220-100
130-140 =A220-300
150-160 =A220-500
170-180 =320NEO+
190-200 =321NEO
210-230 =??NMA XLR/322

Right now the CASM for the Max is undefined as you can't divide by zero :eek:

60. Air Canada 45 and delta 90.

I was showing 100 of those orders are not real unless I missed something and Moxy is becoming a real thing and republic is taking the jets.

That is temporary, the investigation hasn’t been finished. Boeing could be vindicated on the MCAS for all we know.

I don't look at it as stepping on another product. Airbus has to do something with the manufacturing line they're creating for the A220. If an A225 is something that keeps that line going, because Delta wants 100 of them, they will probably go for it. I doubt the A220 affects sales of the A320 for the very reason you cite, lack of commonality.

It's not feasible for any manufacturer to develop a clean slate design for any midsize narrowbody at this time. There isn't enough savings in a new design to justify the cost of the program. That's why Boeing is hurting so much on the 737 as we talked about in the other thread. They are stuck with that thing no matter what.

I jump seated on Spirit last week and asked the pilots how their NEO fleet was performing. Was it as efficient as Airbus claimed. He said up until a week and a half ago, their entire NEO fleet was grounded because of a lot of fume events. They grounded the entire fleet but now it’s flying again. I hadn’t heard that before that flight.

I read a article where they quoted Delta as stating we expect a 12% overall increase in fuel efficiency. Max thrust for both the CEO and NEO is the same at 33,000 lbs assuming we ordered the highest power option for both types. I don’t know what we actually ordered.

Delta is also announcing a long-term commitment with Pratt & Whitney for Delta TechOps to be a major maintenance, repair and overhaul provider for the Pure Power PW1100G and PW1500G engines, powering Delta’s A321neo and C Series aircraft. This latest generation family of Pratt & Whitney engines is a major factor in the 12 percent fuel efficiency improvement on a per seat basis Delta expects over classic A321 performance.

I have a buddy working over at Spirit and their engine failure/shutdown rates were sky high due to bearing failures. The fix was to increase the oil pressure to the problem bearings.... unfortunately this has caused problems with oil blow-by which is driving the smoke/fume events.

China just ordered 290 more 320s today, of various types I guess.

Evidently our exact model is A321neo ACF with PWG1133G-JM. The ACF removes the 2L and R doors and uses overwing exits. Allows for 197 passengers instead of 192ish. 207k lb mtow. Evidently what Hawaiian has engine wise.

Why couldn't they have located an L2 door where jetway drivers aren't likely to hit the wing/engine?

By a show of hands, how many people have had the pleasure of deplaning a 757-200 from the L1 door?

Frequent fliers love the 757. They don’t have to mix with the poor unwashed masses and can get their highly valued PDB’s undisturbed. I suspect we could come up with a modified or angled jetway for the A321 cheaper than changing the exits.

It would be nice! The lack of a usable 2L door is why I give the 321 an "A-" vs the 757 "A".

It's not just the high flyers either. Catering out of the 1R door while boarding or deplaning from 2L is a good thing also. Bottom line is that we can board and deplane quicker and less stressfully with that setup.

With all the focus on NPS, and the fact that the 321 does so much flying into the BOS, LGA and DCAs of the world, I'm surprised this hasn't been a priority.

That is the highest thrust version.

Spirit has the P&W engine option, Delta is getting the CFM LEAP-1A. The CFM has had minor issues compared to the P&W.

It seems like the 2nd door is much smaller, or is that just my imagination?

I don’t think this is correct since we are setting up a overhaul facility for the Prats and that was tied into the purchase decision.

It is indeed smaller, unlike the 757. Much as I would like to see it, you won't be seeing the 321 2L door used here at DAL. It is for emergency use only.

Maybe that will change for the 321XLR, I'm betting Delta's 100 options will be those.

Not very likely. Delta rarely pays for capability they don’t need. At best they might need a dozen of that type in the fleet.

How many 75S/P are there in the fleet? A certain percentage of the 763 would also need to be replaced by the XLR. .

There are 17 but quite a few are in domestic rotations. A single aisle aircraft is not really compatible with the direction Delta is going internationally and the product they want to offer.

I don't think they have a choice, the 797 is vaporware now that Rolls backed out. The Ultrafan is the only engine that is usable for that size of airplane. Pratt could do it, but they need to remove the thrust reversers from the GTF, add 10K lbs of power, and a new type of ultra high bypass resin fan with variable pitch to replace the reversers.



My guess is Delta's orders through 2030 are:
100 A225
50-100 addition A321neo/A321XLR
30 A350neo with Ultrafan.

Okay. I had to look this up several times because I was kind of surprised.

A320 Fleet
Main doors (1LR and Rear LR): 1829x829 mm or 72 x 32

A321
Emergency Exit Doors
2L: Size: 1854 x 762 mm (73.0 x 30.0 in.)
2R, 3LR: Size: 1524 x 762 mm (60.0 x 30.0 in.)

The 2L forward emergency exit door is usable as a normal passenger/crew door

https://photos.flight-report.com/med...8FoQ2Vl3/7.JPG

That would be nice, eh?

757
Book I show says 1L and 2L are 72 x 33.
Doesn’t seem to show it in mm. Odd. ;)

You get a pass on documenting in metrics if you hail from the country that sent men to the moon.

HA.

I like what someone said when Trump walked in front of the Queen for a brief moment... don’t worry, he’s got a permission slip signed by Thomas Jefferson and 55 others. :D