How many jobs have you had that if you were scheduled to work an 8 hour day and the company came and said “Hey, you have to work 2 more hours” you were potentially punished for saying no.

Every job I’ve ever had. From washing dishes to unloading a truck at Kmart to flying for Uncle Sam. If my boss asked me to stay 2 hours extra for some reason and I said no thanks then there would definitely be ramifications.

What I’ve never had till now is a job where I could leave early and still get paid for work I didn’t do. All I have to do is fill out a form and talk to the duty pilot. I’ve done it more than once, it’s a total non event.

Just to clarify the "contractual max duty day" term you used.....

Setting aside the FRMS 2 hour exception (12.D.1, exception 2), PWA limits are solely for rotation construction (provides a 30 minute buffer to the FAR FDP limit). Once you are out flying on your trip, the PWA limits are cast aside and FAR Duty Period (and, obviously, flight time) limits apply - Table B (unaugmemted) or Table C (augmented).

You could exceed the max contractual PWA FDP shown on your rotation (i.e., "4:06/8:30/11:00" where "4:06" is the scheduled FDP, "8:30" represents the PWA FDP maximum for rotation construction and "11:00" is the max FAR FDP with a two hour extension) but not exceed your FAR FDP (next line - "9:00/11:00/8:00" where "9:00" is the FAR FDP limit, "11:00" is the FAR FDP extension limit and "8:00" is the FAR flight time limit), much less the FAR FDP limit with a 2 hour extension. If you walked away 1 minute after exceeding the PWA FDP, you would still have to fill out an FFDR.

Basically, if you quit before you hit a FAR limit, the company wants an FFDR. If you decline to extend, the company wants an FFDR. Hopefully the FAA POI and/or negotiators will get this changed in the near future in order to make extending the exception rather than the goal, but, for now, those are the rules we have "agreed" to live under based upon prior PWA ratifications.

This is not about asking the boss to take off early. It's the boss asking you to work late, and when you refuse you're asked to write a report.

Who said anything about leaving early? If you refuse an extension you're leaving when you were scheduled to (even then probably later.)

Someone never actually worked in the real world. In the real world, if your boss tells you to work overtime or come in on your day off, unless you have a day off or can convince him you have something you just can't miss, you do it. If you don't, you will find yourself without a job.

People making the amount of money we do will find themselves being asked to do a lot of things and often they don't get a choice in the matter.

How very presumptuous of you. I've worked plenty of non-aviation jobs.

We don't have normal jobs. We operate in an inherently risky environment where skills and judgement must be "A-game" quality. Refusing to work much longer than planned should be a "no questions asked" operation.

Really?? Most of the union jobs I know work what they are supposed to work, punch the clock and go home. It’s one of the things the union protects.

That wasn't your argument. Your argument was that we are basically the only job in the US where we can be made to stay late. No. That's my the case. I'm not arguing the merits of our extension policy.

Quote please.

I guess all I can say to that is you have not worked much in the real world.

I've also been asked by my boss to work beyond the schedule at every job I've ever had.

But really, who cares if you are fatigued while washing the dishes? C'mon, so what if you are tired while unloading a truck at Kmart? And military flying? By definition we do things in the military that are unsafe, especially in combat.

But there is NO reason in civil airline flying to accept unreasonable risks like not being fit for duty at all times.

Most jobs. While the proximity of punishment may not be obvious....there will be a professional cost to not being open to going the extra step.

I know a lot of us can’t accept this, but we are UNION worker bees, paid by the hour. How many hourly UNION jobs are expected to just stay late, without a premium compensation incentive?

Depends what their contract says. Ours says you can do it. That's how unions work

And the FAA says it’s our choice. Any expectation the company puts on the extension is just that, an expectation. Not binding in any way.

We agree completely. If not fit make the call. Not sure what all this angst is about. There is a process in place, it’s not nothing but it’s not unreasonable.

In the real world these extra two hours would be paid at time and half.

Its a process that shoudn't exist in the first place though. It exists as a deterrant. And its also an opportunity to testify against yourself since you have to justify what you shouldn't have to justify.

Depending on the state and your job maybe or maybe not. If your saleried more than likely not. I never got a dime extra at my main college job.

Which college did you get into with grammar like that? I'd like to know where NOT to send my kids. Thank you!

If my kids could get a job and earn as much as sailingfun has over his career, I’d send them to his alma mater in a heartbeat....grammar be D*****!

Denny

Grammar school was a looong time ago for a lot of us.

Things fade. :)

Years of typing on an ABCDE 5x5 keyboard has ill effects. QWERTY users rarely get it. The original texting short hand is UR, not your, and definitely not you're. Apostrophe and more than 3 letters, Pa...LEASE. Cap ain't got time 4 dat.

They also have said that they can't prohibit the company from penalizing you if you don't extend.

Correct. If it was consistently applied by the pilots they would be looking to incentivize extensions. Carrot not stick. Our 95%ish reviews in favor of pay speaks for itself.