Not to mention that unless you are able to designate the source of your electricity, you have most likely gone from a gas-powered car to a coal-powered car.

Just read an article about the subject, though I can't find it now.

IIRC, building EVs is more energy intensive than gas vehicles, by a significant margin. In operation, EVs much less so. The break even point comes fairly quickly.

That's probably correct. While I call BS on the "zero emission" label for EVs, it is honest to say that they are "fewer emissions" than internal combustion engines over the whole spectrum from build, lifetime of driving, to eventual dismantling.

And throw in their great performance, no oil changes, transmissions, fuel systems, and a zillion other things to worry about, and I think the future of EVs is bright, and will be brighter with every year.

Good point. I own a tesla and love it, but whether you are truly reducing your carbon footprint depends somewhat on where you live and where the electricity in your grid comes from. In Seattle, where most power is hydro it’s fairly clean. In New Jersey, where it’s mainly coal you’re probably actually polluting more than with an internal combustion car.

Just destroyed all the salmon runs.

Manufacturing and battery disposal/recycling aside, I think EVs will continue to be cleaner than ICE.
Bloomberg source
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1121222_dont-worry-about-coal-electric-cars-are-still-cleaner

Last I read it takes around 20% greater emissions to build an EV vs an equivalent gas car, with similar recycling ability. With the lower emissions during use, the crossover to a net positive occurs at around 6 months of EV ownership.

The best website I’ve found is the US Department of Energy

https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/electric_emissions.html

just put in your state and it will compare EV vs hybrid vs a gas car. It does matter where you live - In West Virginia where coal is the primary source of electricity, there’s close to zero emission savings. But in Washington state that uses nearly all hydro power, it’s like driving a 1000 mpg car. PA looks pretty good since it’s a lot of nuclear and natural gas.

Emissions aside, the autopilot tech is amazing for commutes (especially in traffic), and filling up the tank for $5 at home and lack of maintenance is great. Would recommend to anyone.

I have a Model 3 as well. My dad brought up the same argument (which I am no tree hugger) about “you are just burning coal” until I pulled up the state by state maps of what percentage of electricity comes from what source. He was pretty surprised to see how little electricity is actually produced from coal as alternative fuels and cleaner options like natural gas expand.

Gasoline isn’t a free lunch either. Besides what you burn, it also takes a lot of energy to extract it, transport, refine it as well.... and the same can be said for the mining of lithium etc.

Either way, I don’t think anyone could argue that if we were 100% electric in Atlanta for example, that we would not have much cleaner air than we currently do.

I looked into this when we bought out Prius. The answer is yes, hybrids and electrics are more environmentally friendly over their lifetime than regular ICE vehicles. I've been trying to find a source, and there are plenty of scientific studies to read through that say that, but very few that actually give a lay-person synopsis. Here's the first one I found:

https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/cle...s-cradle-grave
Honestly though, with just about any car that isn't dumping gas directly to the atmosphere, the best thing you can do is drive it until it dies. Buying a new car every 3-5 like most people do will negate any positive environmental impact you gain, even from electric vehicles.

Just as a side note, the Prius is just a great car. Despite its "golf cart" stereotype, with both a gas and electric engine it has plenty of get up and go, gets 55+ mpg, and being a hatchback, actually has a lot of space. And the newer models actually look good too. As long as you're not off-roading or need to tow anything of any consequence, I think it's a perfect car.

So is a Prius a sports car???

It's no Miata!

The Supra is back and may become an EV. I used to like this car back when... Where is it now in the roadster hierarchy? Miata level? Audi TT? Tesla roadster? Z4 is suposed to be the sister and the engineering behind it. Would I be Miata shamed or Tesla admired?

https://www.motor1.com/news/352424/n...ic-autonomous/

The Supra isn’t a roadster

The biggest affect someone can have on their carbon footprint is changing to a plant-based diet. (This includes driving, flying ...)

Now back to car talk.

Pretty sure they are made in the same plant...in Austria.

But I like my farting cow burgers.

I thought they were building a convertible version but I guess that's still a concept too.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/t...re-131657.html

Convertible != roadster

I have been doing this for a week, well meatless. I still do cheeses. The hardest part is getting over the psych that all you are eating is side dishes. I cut out poultry and fish too and I'm running out of ideas.

6 years for me. I don’t miss meat. Airport eating is a challenge at smaller airports. No problem at hubs. Lots of burritos with guacamole.

Might eat fish in Ireland occasionally if I’m on the coast.

I am trying to figure out how if I harvest a deer and put it in my freezer, other than the electricity it took me to get to the field and the electricity to run the freezer, how is that a large carbon foot print?

Gosh, if only there were other ways that the overwhelming majority of meat is produced, and that people aren’t really talking about the outliers. 🤔

So you only eat deer and other animals you cull from the land?

When I'm home, yeah.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

It's not. The problem is factory farming. A billion cows, a billion chickens, a billion pigs that wouldn't exist without artificial selection. Their methane, the carbon the processing and transportation produces, the urine and feces run-off into the waterways all adds up.

Keep on eating your deer.

As long as we force electric vehicles on everyone, no mater the logic or reason.....

My wife is a dietitian so we cut out fatty red meat awhile ago. We were eating poultry and seafood but now I’m trying to see if I can get it down to meatless. Burritos are my staple at work. I’ve been trying the imitation patties but I’m not really a fan. For me it’s the health benefits. If I can stay with this, cheese is next. I had a cholesterol spike and heart disease and heart attacks run in the family so this is a preemptive effort. Who knew I’d get old and have to work until 65(+):eek::D

No. I understand where you are going now. I thought it was some sort of PETA argument.

Well, from an animal welfare perspective: The lives those animals lead on factory farms are pathetic. There’s a reason most midwestern states legislated that hidden cameras be banned in slaughterhouses and large farms.

From an evolutionary perspective pigs, chickens and cows are clear winners in terms of gene repetition. From an individual perspective they’d be better off never having been born.

To tie this all into section6: I sure wish we had the ability to request vegetarian meals instead of being told “hey there’s only beef left”

Yes..........

This is making me hungry for a steak. :D

I've outsourced the grass consumption in my diet to free range beef. The rest of the veggies are consumed directly.

On a related note, do Salmon farts ruin the atmosphere?

I think the methane is offset by the water aeration that helps the seaweed (river grass?).

Vegetables and legumes give me gas so I wonder what the net methane output is as I continue the vegetarian diet? :confused: Maybe I can get a natural gas hybrid powered Miata with pedal assist. ;)

[QUOTE=OOfff;2924894]To tie this all into section6: I sure wish we had the ability to request vegetarian meals instead of being told “hey there’s only beef


I sure wish we had the ability to select specific items from a menu.

[QUOTE=DenVa;2924987]I feel like there is a company out there that offers this. And crew meals are a regular thing for them also.

[QUOTE=fishforfun;2924988]I suppose I’ll be told to go work there, eventually.

It’s the trump card of all arguments that point out there is something better in a contract at other places other than Delta.

Yeah, don't get to talking about industry writ large or advantages or disadvantages, just keep in line and ur mouth shut