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Originally Posted by theUpsideDown
(Post 2909268)
I think there's gonna be a generational difference on some of this. Grand fathers generation had a pension, fathers generation didn't have parents telling them to bear down and save so they didn't until late in life when it turns out, "you mean I'm not gonna die at 67?", to this generation of pilots who had mom and dad yelling to save save save. I'd even bet this current crop who won't marry and saves retire early. Generations are wildly different. Wilfred Brimley was 49 when he shot cocoon. *shrug* Tom Brady is 42 playing in the NFL. The generation retiring didn't go through a decade of 40-50 grand a year, and maybe they had a furlough, but they're trying to get with the program in the last 5years and it's ugly to watch.
If their generation had known their pensions/medical were going to be gutted, I'm sure they would have killed to have had 16% DC their entire careers. You can't deny that our generation has benefited immensely from the lessons learned from the previous generations loss of pensions. Who knows what the future of our 401Ks have in store...the next generations may look at us like we're idiots for relying on 401Ks. Partially why I have invested in rentals/other income producing opportunities. Throw in a B-scale, a furlough and mid-2000s paycut...that's a tough go. Take a look at he bankruptcy payrates! 12 year 777As making $185/hr with no real PS! What's that today...a 6-7 year 7ERB or a 3-4 year 320B if you add in PS? Great thread Scoop! |
Originally Posted by Taildragger1
(Post 2909186)
Hi Tim,
I guess that depends on how you look at it. I’ve had one modest wife. I still live in the long paid for $89,000 house I bought on the B scale. My few toys have made money. Two kids. One ran a full ride scholarship. Second is still at home. After the PBGC, claim, and note are accounted for and the hundred grand minimum I’ve usually added on top of my 401k, a 4% draw on all of my nest eggs equal FAE 12% but the year isn’t over yet so final math is yet to come. What totally boggles my mind is how much better off I am than most of my peers. A snap shot from today means happy 65th birthday is sudden unemployment and a 88% cut in pay if I maintain discipline. Obviously the current rash of Greenslips runs those numbers toward the lower side but my goal of FAE 25% that I set after the bankruptcy simply isn’t happening in my life. I strongly suggest everyone get a Fidelity advisor or equivalent. Look at your numbers guys. How are you really doing? Are you using ALPA R&I actuarial data that requires you to die in a timely fashion so the math looks less embarrassing? Is anyone really ok with that? $500,000 * 0.12 = $60,000 / 0.04 = $1,500,000 $400,000 * 0.12 = $48,000 / 0.04 = $1,200,000 $300,000 * 0.12 = $36,000 / 0.04 = $900,000 $200,000 * 0.12 = $24,000 / 0.04 = $600,000 After the PBGC, claim, and note and $100,000 per year added on top of your DC 401k plan, you are still going to draw less than $60,000 per year in retirement? Financial advisors are a scam. Read The Simple Path to Wealth by JL Collins instead. |
Originally Posted by crewdawg
(Post 2909284)
This!
If their generation had known their pensions/medical were going to be gutted, I'm sure they would have killed to have had 16% DC their entire careers. You can't deny that our generation has benefited immensely from the lessons learned from the previous generations loss of pensions. Who knows what the future of our 401Ks have in store...the next generations may look at us like we're idiots for relying on 401Ks. Partially why I have invested in rentals/other income producing opportunities. Throw in a B-scale, a furlough and mid-2000s paycut...that's a tough go. Take a look at he bankruptcy payrates! 12 year 777As making $185/hr with no real PS! What's that today...a 6-7 year 7ERB or a 3-4 year 320B if you add in PS? Great thread Scoop! |
Originally Posted by Taildragger1
(Post 2909186)
Hi Tim,
I guess that depends on how you look at it. I’ve had one modest wife. I still live in the long paid for $89,000 house I bought on the B scale. My few toys have made money. Two kids. One ran a full ride scholarship. Second is still at home. After the PBGC, claim, and note are accounted for and the hundred grand minimum I’ve usually added on top of my 401k, a 4% draw on all of my nest eggs equal FAE 12% but the year isn’t over yet so final math is yet to come. What totally boggles my mind is how much better off I am than most of my peers. A snap shot from today means happy 65th birthday is sudden unemployment and a 88% cut in pay if I maintain discipline. Obviously the current rash of Greenslips runs those numbers toward the lower side but my goal of FAE 25% that I set after the bankruptcy simply isn’t happening in my life. I strongly suggest everyone get a Fidelity advisor or equivalent. Look at your numbers guys. How are you really doing? Are you using ALPA R&I actuarial data that requires you to die in a timely fashion so the math looks less embarrassing? Is anyone really ok with that? |
Spot on Scoop. I’d add that the education we need is the costs of our contract requests. I’ve written it before, but we can all stand around and argue about the importance of various contract improvements, but until we have some estimate of the costs of various items, we will see little unity. Unity is one measure of our capital in negotiations, and our current disparate desires won’t yield to unity until we can make informed trades among the various constituencies.
We need to be able to propose—to each other—an incremental cost to the company for our future contract and then discuss filling that cost with our desires in an equitable fashion. We need to be able to say, “I think DAL will pay $1.25B over three years to sign a deal” or better, “I think the company will accept pilot costs of $1.10 per average seat mile” and then discuss whether we allocate 25% of that to pay rates with a 5:45 vacation day or 50% of that to pay rates. These data will be estimates, will lack important detail from non-cost items (like sick usage rules, for instance), and will lack proprietary inputs that could make them better. With all of these known deficiencies they would be better than nothing. I recommend we ask the union for these estimates. I have. |
For those of us in the 30...should be looking at whole like insurance. With 4 to 5% + dividends steady for 30 yrs is a passive way to save money.
We won’t see Social Security, so...we need other venues to shelter money. I’ve been saving around 30k yr + what I can get in my 401k. |
Originally Posted by PilotJ3
(Post 2909336)
For those of us in the 30...should be looking at whole like insurance. With 4 to 5% + dividends steady for 30 yrs is a passive way to save money.
We won’t see Social Security, so...we need other venues to shelter money. I’ve been saving around 30k yr + what I can get in my 401k. |
Originally Posted by Abouttime2fish
(Post 2909517)
Whole life huh? Oh boy now you’ve really opened up a can of worms!
There are some CAs also doing them, I don’t see them complaining about retirement, anywhere. |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 2909185)
You do not have the means to survive at 65?
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Originally Posted by PilotJ3
(Post 2909336)
For those of us in the 30...should be looking at whole like insurance. With 4 to 5% + dividends steady for 30 yrs is a passive way to save money.
. This is an example of why not to take financial advice from pilots Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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