you speak with great wisdom grasshopper…

From a legal writing standpoint, "will" is not the preferable term to be used in contracts. "Shall" is used in contracts to denote mandatory obligations while "may" is used to denote permissive or optional/non-mandatory conduct.

So when we're MAKING billions, they wanna get wrapped around the axle about saving money with single engine taxi (what's the number they always spout? $2M/yr per minute of SE taxi?) But now that were planning the lose billions, $10M/mo is chump change? Got it.:rolleyes:

well said!

Write your congressmen and senators, that's what I did.

I don’t believe the best in them.

I’d also argue they didn’t “win”. If anything, they ****ed off 14,500 employees when they did this, only to then ask us to take a pay cut (which the MEC told them to rightly pound sand).

You are right in that a lesson was learned, and it will get messy before it’s over. But they united the pilot union, which can only benefit us in the long run.

I’m thinking lots of things that were hot topics of discussion for savings aren’t going to make the cut in this brave new world.

I’ll still single engine taxi when it makes sense. In the end, I’m still relying on this company for a paycheck and nothing good comes from burning more gas and money than necessary.

Contract talks are a whole different animal. They’ve burned that bridge and have a long chasm to cross to ask for help.

I operate the airplane is though it were mine and the money was coming out of my pocket. And I have had an airplane for over 20 years.

you’re missing the part where loss of employee goodwill might make that savings a negative number. If 2000 VLOAs at under $6k a month don’t get taken for a single month (vice multiple months for the $10m savings number) because “screw you the pilots get paid leave,” the $10m savings is suddenly a cost item.

Do you think a person that is willing to forego their income to “help the company” is the same person that will decline to do so out of spite because of the “greedy pilots”? I don’t.

Don't really understand that after a few cocktails but I can say that whatever you do will have absolutely no bearing on the company's decision

you’re missing the part where most of the VLOAs will receive unemployment compensation that covers the bulk of lost earnings or that were part time employees who are here for the benefits more than the paycheck. Delta even fills out the unemployment paperwork for employees taking leave. If pilots could get unemployment benefits that covered most of their pay, many would be out on leave too. Management is intentionally sending a misleading message so the pilot group will help save buybacks.

We have learned our lesson. Also, a big thanks to management for uniting the pilot group more effectively than any MEC could ever dream of.

this, I understand

Almost every state will deny unemployment if you voluntarily separate from your job.

That will be the interesting thing.... what happens when the States push back? It’s not like they have all this extra money laying around to let people defraud the system.

Now we know who is up front while we are all sweating to death in the back and ****ing off our high profit first class customer!;):cool:

....However this is exactly correct!!!!!

That was completely true until the CARE Act passed last Friday. Voluntary leaves are now covered till July 31st.

“No, SILs are not back on the table.” Ok then, with payroll covered by the gubment, next. Moving on at 72 hours a month. Wasn’t it a week ago they were begging for ideas to cut costs in one of these videos? :rolleyes:

Unbelievable, I guess the game is hardball. This is not going to help anyone but decisions have been made. Every future union drive has my support.

https://apple.news/AbLYQhxFjRIiR91yidnadlg

Wont go over well in the court of public opinion. Or DC. Ed basically has done the same thing to the public/government that he did to us in LOA 20-01. Reneged on his word. It’ll be interesting to see if this garners any negative feedback.

There are 3+ million newly minted unemployed workers whose industry didn’t get grants from Congress. They surely won’t understand Ed’s rhetoric...

What was that thing about stock buybacks again? How much were those stock grants worth extra as a result of those billions blown in stock buybacks? What’s that stock worth today? Can we park any of those buybacks or use them as equity collateral to help save the airline Ed?

The answer is NO.

Ok maybe you guys can help fix my apparent misperceptions about this situation.

If this government payroll GRANT is to cover PAYROLL based on worker compensation from 1 April through 30 September 2019, why do we need to reduce our PAYROLL expenses now. The government is paying the salaries... why does delta care how much the government is paying their employees?

Speak slowly and use small words. I’m not that smart.

They're trying to save any money they can. The grant only carries us through Q2.

We’re in Q2 atm correct? That would make sense to me if these LOA began July 1.

Have they renegotiated leases and gates? There is a zero chance at any meaningful level if repossessions right now as long as you're offering even nominal pennies on the dollar. What leasing company can and will take hold of thousands of airliners not in use and eat the costs? Same for gates and landing fees etc.

Call their bluffs and offer them dimes on the dollar. They will have to take it.

Not unless we are in bankruptcy........which is why we shouldn’t give the Company two bites at the apple ever again.

Denny

i think it carries us thru Q3 as well. That’s the quarter that ends sept 30.

If I head right in the April 1 townhall, the 5 billion will only cover expenses for the next 2-3 months.

There was no discussion about the separate loan package. But flying traffic is down to 10%, with 5% normal loads coming to you very, very soon.

Explicitly said "no furloughs", however, and I assume this is for all employee groups.

The grant money is equal to the payroll for 6 months. What mgmt is apparently trying to do is “save” payroll costs to stretch those dollars further. Or put another way, use “saved” payroll costs for things other than payroll.

I get it, there are other overhead costs, separate from operating costs (fuel, maintenance, parts, etc), but the grant money was not intended to cover anything other than payroll. The Loan money (with the string of equity stake) is for those costs, but they don’t want the strings, thus the pressure on payroll.

yes that is what was said, it last 2 months was what I recall. And that’s it from the grant so we have to cut.

he did mention we still have 50,000 a day flying Hence we are still flying

It would cover total expenses for 2-3 months. They were trying to act like it was for them to use on whatever they want. However the grants are specifically earmarked to cover payroll through sept. Delta is hoping their employees are ignorant and don’t watch the news.

From the town hall, I noticed that they are taking the grants but looking into other options for loans. My father sent me an email from his financial advisor with many bullets of positive news during this time. Bullet # 2 was the fact that corporate CEOs in the US are currently buying their own stock shares at levels not seen since 2009. This indicates that CEOs are confident that their companies will rebound. Dell Technologies CEO Micheal Dell just bought bought $26.3 million of his own stock last week.

That would be one good reason not to take the government loans and perhaps why leadership is looking at other revenue streams to avoid the government loans.

We haven’t flown 50k since Sunday. Since then it’s dropped (as you’d expect for midweek). Even if we counted every working crew member today 2x on all flights we wouldn’t hit 50k. 25% load factor today too....and that’s only figuring what we’re operating. If we were still offering the same seats/day as we did 2 months ago, we’d be just under 10% load factor. 😧☹️

Still flying, just not very much. I’d hate to see a total shutdown unless it was fed directed. No one wants to be first....a restart would take weeks.

Supposedly, 2 days ago our revenue was 3M dollars for the day, compared to a typical day of 130M. That is only a paltry 127M $$$$ shortfall for 1 day.

Let's not talk revenue, let's talk expenses. I'll even narrow it down to pilot expenses. Avg pilot salary 20K a month 14500 pilots equals about 1B for the quarter. No problem....plenty of money to pay the pilots. Other employees? Other obligations? Eff that!

People have asked "why don't we renegotiate leases"? Previously(2005), prior to going into bankruptcy, we had our most onerous MD88 leases at about 240,000$$$ a month. Tried to renegotiate...lessor said tough tata's, no dice. After we declared bankruptcy, Delta told the creditors to come pick 'em up. They wound up getting new leases on those MD88's at 30,000$$$ a month. Not sure renegotiating would result in any different outcome this time around.

I'm a short timer. Good luck to all you guys that have a long career ahead. It may well prove to be a gut wrentching time with tough decisions to be made by mgt, by the union and by the pilots.

Interesting perspective. Did he (or the article he mentioned) say anything about DL or other airline execs doing so at this time?

As for other revenue, great, although I'm not seeing a lot right now except for cargo, which also requires at least some domestic flying footprint beyond the initial delivery hub.

I'm just as concerned with our ability to participate in the recovery later. If all we do is shrink to profitability, we'll be absolutely creamed by the existing and future start up LCCs and be lucky to beat back cabotage attempts. Thats one reason why IMO we need a strategy to ramp up quickly and why furloughing to the bones of the optimizer will absolutely screw us later, far negating any savings in the medium term. That doesn't mean its a binary choice (internet porn version of 7K furloughs versus zero) but if we do it has to be significantly less than current or immediately forcast demand or we'll be hosed on the other side of this. Yet another reason why "work less not for less" should be the battle plan when the time comes.

This is different because there is zero market anyone on the planet for current leases at anywhere near prevailing rates right now. We already have terms which include sending them back if we don't pay. Time to make some calls. Not to renegotiate for decades, but for the next couple quarters at least. If they won't accept reasonable terms, stop paying and let them come get them. Not all the planes of course, but what we know we won't need for as long as it would take to get replacements.

Call their bluff. They have zero leverage and won't nuke their own balance sheet over a few month's payment differentials. Offer them interest only for next quarter and interest plus a third of principle (or equivalent) for 2 quarters after that then going back to normal, and if they balk call their bluff and let them eat the full cost with zero income.

Hadn't heard that. As simple as dont pay, no penalty? Doesnt pass the smell test, but I'm not saying you are wrong. If true, great for us and the creditor is more ignorant than I would have ever dreamed possible.

Oops dup post

The penalty is they repo. Who cares. Obviously not the whole fleet, but time to get congress involved in this as well. Hedge funds spooled up in leasing companies who flip the depreciation into tax shelters etc while hundreds of thousands of working American's jobs and our economic engine/infrastructure is at risk, including the travelling public on the other side of this, and including local and state government's tax revenues which are already plummeting, all so lease holders get to "eat first" without any adjustment as if the boom times were going on uninterrupted? Nah. Call their bluff and let them choke on their worthless collateral with a side of PR disaster if they won't offer temporary relief.

Ok, if you say so. Still won't surprise me if there is more to the story. Even landlords get 1st month, last month, security deposit etc as some protection.