Originally Posted by Drum (Post 3122341)

I don't follow your logic here. How is it DALPAs issue the airline is furloughing? DALPA has offered, from I have read, very amenable terms and options with flexibility to forestall some furloughs. Kompany told them to pound sand. Give us ALV concessions or nothing.

Well say hypothetically we give them ALV relief; 1)what's stopping the kompany from furloughing anyway? and 2)how long would it take to remove that provision if accepted (which I don't think it would ever pass a vote). We've seen the numbers, we know the $$$ savings given the multiple voluntary options proffered by the MEC. I can see them, if given ALV relief, using it as a rolling tool to overwork certain categories while idling others, a feast or famine type scenario where they can pull the strings at will (optimizer 4.0). We've seen their act. Dishonesty is in their playbook.

No, I don't think we need to go crazy Ivan on giving up anything to them. I was prepared as UNA to be furloughed. I got saved by VEOP, but I'm still not all that far from the bottom of the list. Kompany is out to make an example of union shop, they are covering that under the guise of $$ savings. It's all a massive pile of BS.

Originally Posted by XJ86 (Post 3122367)

Because ALV cuts were a win win. Kept thousands in The left seat at 62 hours a month with. 62 hour green slip trigger, resulting in 20k less per year at base rate verse 100k less per year. Alv cut couod have gave us many soft money improvements in the contract and if they wanted it upped due to return to normal pax loads we could say no and now fly 2 trips a month average at greenslip making way more with a few extra days off. Wpyod have saved them trianing costs and kept us working. But alas alpa is the same no matter what carrier. Protect the top 10% and screw the rest. Smae 10% who mostly had the summer off

Originally Posted by Bergman (Post 3122258)

Per Email from head of IFS this afternoon. That’s good news at least!

Guess the company really does just want to shaft the pilots. Should have expected this after their super sincere contract negations earlier this year. 🙄

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 3122372)

Really strange post. Bizarre actually if your trying to make some point. Let’s look at the facts. 25,000 flight attendants, 14,000 pilots. 1900 pilot early retirements verses 4000 flight attendant early retirements. A handful of pilots taking unpaid leaves verses 3900 flight attendants taking unpaid leaves. In addition several hundred flight attendants on 8 month transfer to catering. Additional flight attendants moving to res for 1 or 2 years. Flight attendant monthly line average reduced to 71 hours verses ours at 79. Do you really want to compare us to the flight attendants?
They have reduced inflight staffing by a third in addition to the 71 hour line value.
That should be sobering to pilots about the future planned block hours.

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 3122372)

Really strange post. Bizarre actually if your trying to make some point. Let’s look at the facts. 25,000 flight attendants, 14,000 pilots. 1900 pilot early retirements verses 4000 flight attendant early retirements. A handful of pilots taking unpaid leaves verses 3900 flight attendants taking unpaid leaves. In addition several hundred flight attendants on 8 month transfer to catering. Additional flight attendants moving to res for 1 or 2 years. Flight attendant monthly line average reduced to 71 hours verses ours at 79. Do you really want to compare us to the flight attendants?
They have reduced inflight staffing by a third in addition to the 71 hour line value.
That should be sobering to pilots about the future planned block hours.

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 3122372)

Really strange post. Bizarre actually if your trying to make some point. Let’s look at the facts. 25,000 flight attendants, 14,000 pilots. 1900 pilot early retirements verses 4000 flight attendant early retirements. A handful of pilots taking unpaid leaves verses 3900 flight attendants taking unpaid leaves. In addition several hundred flight attendants on 8 month transfer to catering. Additional flight attendants moving to res for 1 or 2 years. Flight attendant monthly line average reduced to 71 hours verses ours at 79. Do you really want to compare us to the flight attendants?
They have reduced inflight staffing by a third in addition to the 71 hour line value.
That should be sobering to pilots about the future planned block hours.

Originally Posted by Bergman (Post 3122325)

It’s apples to apples, as we are all Delta employees. The company bent over backwards to keep them on property, yet they apparently aren’t all that interested in keeping the pilots. I understand the financials involved, and perhaps pilot furloughs truly couldn’t Have been helped, but the lack of effort is disheartening.

Again, very happy for the FAs. I know a lot of them have really been sweating this.

Originally Posted by Avroman (Post 3122447)

Keep that in mind the next time you pass by your Endeavor pilot comrades ( oh and the Comair and ASA ones before )

Originally Posted by Bergman (Post 3122325)

It’s apples to apples, as we are all Delta employees. The company bent over backwards to keep them on property, yet they apparently aren’t all that interested in keeping the pilots. I understand the financials involved, and perhaps pilot furloughs truly couldn’t Have been helped, but the lack of effort is disheartening.

Again, very happy for the FAs. I know a lot of them have really been sweating this.