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-   -   ALPA 1941 assistance (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/131075-alpa-1941-assistance.html)

Schwanker 09-17-2020 09:29 AM


Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 3130648)
It has no value.

How much value does that $15,000,000,000.00 in stock buybacks have? Maybe they could sell those at a huge profit!!!

Funk 09-17-2020 10:18 AM


Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 3130648)
It has no value.

Are you impugning the strategic and managerial genius of our company leadership?!?! Blasphemy!!!

Side note, if the refinery has lost money and has no value, why do we keep it at all? And why keep hemorrhaging cash on this venture that has no value, but cut a much cheaper asset (pilots at the bottom of the pay scale) which will actually serve a useful purpose when travel demand increases, possibly at a rate that exceeds training throughput to reconfigure the network in a timely manner?

Hawaii50 09-17-2020 11:57 AM


Originally Posted by Vsop (Post 3130625)
Thanks to all of your feedback I've altered the idea slightly.


The proposal is as follows:


A monthly assessment not to exceed 3.5% of pilot pay for every non furloughed Delta pilot. This would fund the Furlough Emergency and Disaster Relief (FEDR). The assessment would be required to maintain the FEDR to a level equal to: (furloughed pilots who have not bypassed recall) x $3,300.


That $3,300/mo equates to $39,600 annually. That the furloughed pilots would have to apply to receive, and it appears the aide would come in the form of a tax free no interest loan.


If the company files any form of bankruptcy, this terminates. When all pilots are recalled, it terminates. This would need MEMRAT now, and in 1 year to continue.


I think this proposal solves most of the issues discussed. It would require all pilots to participate. The recipients would need to ask for the assistance. Lastly the aide would be in the form of a loan.


To sum up my thoughts: I'm not sure what the best way forward is for our pilot group. I do think this is a viable option worth consideration along with our other options of an LOA to prevent furloughs, and not requiring all pilots to provide anymore furlough assistance.

If you have a strong opinion on any of this or another option, now is the time to contact your reps.
Thank you again to you all for providing so much constructive feedback.

I like your idea on many levels. It takes matters into our own hands and preserves a contract that was gutted for so long. The probability of the company not taking the opportunity to stick it to us is low. For those furloughed, it would at least make it easier to have confidence you could pay your mortgage.

I’m hoping Cares 2 comes through and saves jobs in this government induced disaster but if not I hope DALPA is taking a serious look at what we can do to help our own. Thanks for the thought you’ve put in on this.

mikea72580 09-17-2020 12:34 PM


Originally Posted by Vsop (Post 3130625)
Thanks to all of your feedback I've altered the idea slightly.


The proposal is as follows:


A monthly assessment not to exceed 3.5% of pilot pay for every non furloughed Delta pilot. This would fund the Furlough Emergency and Disaster Relief (FEDR). The assessment would be required to maintain the FEDR to a level equal to: (furloughed pilots who have not bypassed recall) x $3,300.


That $3,300/mo equates to $39,600 annually. That the furloughed pilots would have to apply to receive, and it appears the aide would come in the form of a tax free no interest loan.


If the company files any form of bankruptcy, this terminates. When all pilots are recalled, it terminates. This would need MEMRAT now, and in 1 year to continue.


I think this proposal solves most of the issues discussed. It would require all pilots to participate. The recipients would need to ask for the assistance. Lastly the aide would be in the form of a loan.


To sum up my thoughts: I'm not sure what the best way forward is for our pilot group. I do think this is a viable option worth consideration along with our other options of an LOA to prevent furloughs, and not requiring all pilots to provide anymore furlough assistance.

If you have a strong opinion on any of this or another option, now is the time to contact your reps.
Thank you again to you all for providing so much constructive feedback.

-What would be the collateral for the loan? How would we handle defaults(Pilots leaving Delta)

-Would it then be acceptable to pick up open time, prolonging the time recalls are made?

-Is this in addition to the 1% already approved for health insurance?

-Are all 1,941 interested in weathering the furlough through loans that need to be repaid?

sailingfun 09-17-2020 12:36 PM


Originally Posted by Funk (Post 3130712)
Are you impugning the strategic and managerial genius of our company leadership?!?! Blasphemy!!!

Side note, if the refinery has lost money and has no value, why do we keep it at all? And why keep hemorrhaging cash on this venture that has no value, but cut a much cheaper asset (pilots at the bottom of the pay scale) which will actually serve a useful purpose when travel demand increases, possibly at a rate that exceeds training throughput to reconfigure the network in a timely manner?

It may have some value to us. It has no value on the market. No one is going to touch a refinery with the pollution issues they all seem to have. Why do you think we were able to buy it so cheap in the first place? Since then refineries values have dropped even more with the rise of electric vehicles. It has also never shown a consistent profit. Would you buy a money losing business? Here is a article that even mentions our refinery. I suspect that within 10 years Delta shuts it down and takes a multi billion dollar write off for environmental cleanup.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-refinery-runcuts/oil-refiners-face-reckoning-as-demand-plummets-idUSKBN21K0C8

sailingfun 09-17-2020 12:46 PM


Originally Posted by Jiggawatt (Post 3129533)
Interesting idea. One way to frame this would be to come up with a number, say $40K, that seems like an agreeable amount to help get furloughees through one year. Then figure out the % that would need to be deducted from the active guys’ paychecks to meet that. It might be, say, 4.2%. Then vote on that (basically this would make everything precise—it would define the benefit and hopefully drive a number even lower than 5%).

Even more likely to pass would be to basically just put out to everyone: “if all active pilots deducted 5%, furloughed pilots would receive $xxxx per month, so please consider a 5% deduction”, then make it voluntary and hope the majority of guys would opt in. I’m new in the airline biz and maybe it’s laughable to think many guys would do this voluntarily, just throwing ideas out there.

{ full disclosure, I’m in the 1941}

Keep in mind the question is not about concessions. The company has a contractual ability to achieve its required cost savings. The decision we as pilots are making is will we share that cost concession equally or force it all on the 1941. If the furlough happens and money is offered take it without guilt. You will still be providing the majority of the cost savings.

Saturn1763 09-17-2020 12:51 PM

The Trainor doesn’t need to show a profit. The primary customer is Delta Air Lines. If the Trainor subsidiary is profiting off Delta, then Delta is losing money to Trainor. The benefit is lowering the crack spread. It has benefited the entire industry, but us slightly more in terms of lowering the crack spread.

Vsop 09-17-2020 01:05 PM


Originally Posted by mikea72580 (Post 3130797)
-What would be the collateral for the loan? How would we handle defaults(Pilots leaving Delta)

-Would it then be acceptable to pick up open time, prolonging the time recalls are made?

-Is this in addition to the 1% already approved for health insurance?

-Are all 1,941 interested in weathering the furlough through loans that need to be repaid?

Some answers to your questions about the loan process are probably can be found here:
https://deltafurlough.alpa.org/

Picking up time while pilots are on furlough will probably still be controversial. That seems like a very nuanced debate with no answer that seems to satisfy everyone.

This would be in addition to the COBRA.

Most likely some of the 1941 would not want a loan and some would want the loan. This is the main purpose for the up to language in the 3.5%. If less of the 1941 receive the money the lower the required assessment.

Seneca Pilot 09-17-2020 01:58 PM


Originally Posted by mikea72580 (Post 3130797)
-What would be the collateral for the loan? How would we handle defaults(Pilots leaving Delta)

-Would it then be acceptable to pick up open time, prolonging the time recalls are made?

-Is this in addition to the 1% already approved for health insurance?

-Are all 1,941 interested in weathering the furlough through loans that need to be repaid?


I'm curious why these would necessarily have to be loans and need collateral. If a senior pilot is looking at loosing say eight hours in a concession this assessment would be much less than the hours lost. If the choice is $2000 less dollars (eight hours at 250 per hr.) or 4% (250 per hr. X 72 hr. guarantee= 18,000 X.04= 720$) I think most pilots would take the 720 loss and understand its actually a 1280 gain over concessions and the contract stays intact.

notEnuf 09-17-2020 02:01 PM


Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 3130804)
Keep in mind the question is not about concessions. The company has a contractual ability to achieve its required cost savings. The decision we as pilots are making is will we share that cost concession equally or force it all on the 1941. If the furlough happens and money is offered take it without guilt. You will still be providing the majority of the cost savings.

The question is whether or not we vote in a contract concession. The airline will be staffed as Delta chooses.


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