ALPA 1941 assistance
09-15-2020, 06:14 PM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Position: 737 A
Posts: 901
ALPA 1941 assistance
Long time lurker 1st thread started... Be gentle and use some lube in your responses 
This probably could have gone in the other 1941 thread. I did see it mentioned in there several pages ago, by Sailing I think. The idea seemed novel and it wasn’t discussed at all.
Before I go into detail on this idea, let me explain my thought process. I think the likelihood of furloughs being prevented by any of the possible means is very low. I also don’t fully trust the company to abide by any no furlough agreement, and I really don’t want to concede items in the contract that will take years/decades to recover.
I also want to help out our soon to be unemployed ALPA brothers/sisters. So the goal for me is to mitigate the suffering of the furloughed while not conceding anything to the company.
My solution is to have ALPA increase dues by 5% on all Delta pilots that have NOT been displaced from A to B. To me those pilots have less financial wiggle room than the rest of us. This extra 5% would then be distributed to the furloughed 1941. My initial thought is to have ALPA hire the 1941 as independent contractors.
Cocktail napkin math says about 8,000 pilots would be on the hook for this extra contribution. Average annual salary for that group I estimated at 200-215k. That generated a benefit for the 1931 furloughed of 40-45k per year. Obviously not as good as them keeping their job, but way better than nothing at all. And likely saving many marriages, bankruptcies, ect...
The extra dues would have a termination point sometime in the future. A year seems appropriate. At that time we would need a MERAT to continue the program.
The extra dues would immediately terminate if there were concessions in any part of the contract.
My favorite parts to this plan are
1) it solves attempting to regain losses in our contract.
2) it shows other employee groups the benefit of being in a union. Imagine a ramper hearing that the furloughed pilot is making +40k from ALPA
3) it helps take away some of the stigma with working GS while there are furloughs since 5% of that GS is going to a furloughed. (I know touchy subject about GS.)
4) it is almost instantaneously cancelable since we are negotiating with only ourselves.
5) it’s a much smaller pay give than the company floated 15% ALV reduction.
I’m looking for constructive feedback if the idea has merit or if there are some hurdles of which I am unaware.
For transparency I’m 1 of the rescued 617
This probably could have gone in the other 1941 thread. I did see it mentioned in there several pages ago, by Sailing I think. The idea seemed novel and it wasn’t discussed at all.
Before I go into detail on this idea, let me explain my thought process. I think the likelihood of furloughs being prevented by any of the possible means is very low. I also don’t fully trust the company to abide by any no furlough agreement, and I really don’t want to concede items in the contract that will take years/decades to recover.
I also want to help out our soon to be unemployed ALPA brothers/sisters. So the goal for me is to mitigate the suffering of the furloughed while not conceding anything to the company.
My solution is to have ALPA increase dues by 5% on all Delta pilots that have NOT been displaced from A to B. To me those pilots have less financial wiggle room than the rest of us. This extra 5% would then be distributed to the furloughed 1941. My initial thought is to have ALPA hire the 1941 as independent contractors.
Cocktail napkin math says about 8,000 pilots would be on the hook for this extra contribution. Average annual salary for that group I estimated at 200-215k. That generated a benefit for the 1931 furloughed of 40-45k per year. Obviously not as good as them keeping their job, but way better than nothing at all. And likely saving many marriages, bankruptcies, ect...
The extra dues would have a termination point sometime in the future. A year seems appropriate. At that time we would need a MERAT to continue the program.
The extra dues would immediately terminate if there were concessions in any part of the contract.
My favorite parts to this plan are
1) it solves attempting to regain losses in our contract.
2) it shows other employee groups the benefit of being in a union. Imagine a ramper hearing that the furloughed pilot is making +40k from ALPA
3) it helps take away some of the stigma with working GS while there are furloughs since 5% of that GS is going to a furloughed. (I know touchy subject about GS.)
4) it is almost instantaneously cancelable since we are negotiating with only ourselves.
5) it’s a much smaller pay give than the company floated 15% ALV reduction.
I’m looking for constructive feedback if the idea has merit or if there are some hurdles of which I am unaware.
For transparency I’m 1 of the rescued 617
09-15-2020, 06:22 PM
#2
75 most of the time
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: 7ER B
Posts: 266
Originally Posted by Vsop
Long time lurker 1st thread started... Be gentle and use some lube in your responses
This probably could have gone in the other 1941 thread. I did see it mentioned in there several pages ago, by Sailing I think. The idea seemed novel and it wasn’t discussed at all.
Before I go into detail on this idea, let me explain my thought process. I think the likelihood of furloughs being prevented by any of the possible means is very low. I also don’t fully trust the company to abide by any no furlough agreement, and I really don’t want to concede items in the contract that will take years/decades to recover.
I also want to help out our soon to be unemployed ALPA brothers/sisters. So the goal for me is to mitigate the suffering of the furloughed while not conceding anything to the company.
My solution is to have ALPA increase dues by 5% on all Delta pilots that have NOT been displaced from A to B. To me those pilots have less financial wiggle room than the rest of us. This extra 5% would then be distributed to the furloughed 1941. My initial thought is to have ALPA hire the 1941 as independent contractors.
Cocktail napkin math says about 8,000 pilots would be on the hook for this extra contribution. Average annual salary for that group I estimated at 200-215k. That generated a benefit for the 1931 furloughed of 40-45k per year. Obviously not as good as them keeping their job, but way better than nothing at all. And likely saving many marriages, bankruptcies, ect...
The extra dues would have a termination point sometime in the future. A year seems appropriate. At that time we would need a MERAT to continue the program.
The extra dues would immediately terminate if there were concessions in any part of the contract.
My favorite parts to this plan are
1) it solves attempting to regain losses in our contract.
2) it shows other employee groups the benefit of being in a union. Imagine a ramper hearing that the furloughed pilot is making +40k from ALPA
3) it helps take away some of the stigma with working GS while there are furloughs since 5% of that GS is going to a furloughed. (I know touchy subject about GS.)
4) it is almost instantaneously cancelable since we are negotiating with only ourselves.
5) it’s a much smaller pay give than the company floated 15% ALV reduction.
I’m looking for constructive feedback if the idea has merit or if there are some hurdles of which I am unaware.
For transparency I’m 1 of the rescued 617
This probably could have gone in the other 1941 thread. I did see it mentioned in there several pages ago, by Sailing I think. The idea seemed novel and it wasn’t discussed at all.
Before I go into detail on this idea, let me explain my thought process. I think the likelihood of furloughs being prevented by any of the possible means is very low. I also don’t fully trust the company to abide by any no furlough agreement, and I really don’t want to concede items in the contract that will take years/decades to recover.
I also want to help out our soon to be unemployed ALPA brothers/sisters. So the goal for me is to mitigate the suffering of the furloughed while not conceding anything to the company.
My solution is to have ALPA increase dues by 5% on all Delta pilots that have NOT been displaced from A to B. To me those pilots have less financial wiggle room than the rest of us. This extra 5% would then be distributed to the furloughed 1941. My initial thought is to have ALPA hire the 1941 as independent contractors.
Cocktail napkin math says about 8,000 pilots would be on the hook for this extra contribution. Average annual salary for that group I estimated at 200-215k. That generated a benefit for the 1931 furloughed of 40-45k per year. Obviously not as good as them keeping their job, but way better than nothing at all. And likely saving many marriages, bankruptcies, ect...
The extra dues would have a termination point sometime in the future. A year seems appropriate. At that time we would need a MERAT to continue the program.
The extra dues would immediately terminate if there were concessions in any part of the contract.
My favorite parts to this plan are
1) it solves attempting to regain losses in our contract.
2) it shows other employee groups the benefit of being in a union. Imagine a ramper hearing that the furloughed pilot is making +40k from ALPA
3) it helps take away some of the stigma with working GS while there are furloughs since 5% of that GS is going to a furloughed. (I know touchy subject about GS.)
4) it is almost instantaneously cancelable since we are negotiating with only ourselves.
5) it’s a much smaller pay give than the company floated 15% ALV reduction.
I’m looking for constructive feedback if the idea has merit or if there are some hurdles of which I am unaware.
For transparency I’m 1 of the rescued 617
09-15-2020, 06:26 PM
#3
Banned
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Position: 3+ hour sit in the ATL
Posts: 1,982
Originally Posted by Vsop
Long time lurker 1st thread started... Be gentle and use some lube in your responses
This probably could have gone in the other 1941 thread. I did see it mentioned in there several pages ago, by Sailing I think. The idea seemed novel and it wasn’t discussed at all.
Before I go into detail on this idea, let me explain my thought process. I think the likelihood of furloughs being prevented by any of the possible means is very low. I also don’t fully trust the company to abide by any no furlough agreement, and I really don’t want to concede items in the contract that will take years/decades to recover.
I also want to help out our soon to be unemployed ALPA brothers/sisters. So the goal for me is to mitigate the suffering of the furloughed while not conceding anything to the company.
My solution is to have ALPA increase dues by 5% on all Delta pilots that have NOT been displaced from A to B. To me those pilots have less financial wiggle room than the rest of us. This extra 5% would then be distributed to the furloughed 1941. My initial thought is to have ALPA hire the 1941 as independent contractors.
Cocktail napkin math says about 8,000 pilots would be on the hook for this extra contribution. Average annual salary for that group I estimated at 200-215k. That generated a benefit for the 1931 furloughed of 40-45k per year. Obviously not as good as them keeping their job, but way better than nothing at all. And likely saving many marriages, bankruptcies, ect...
The extra dues would have a termination point sometime in the future. A year seems appropriate. At that time we would need a MERAT to continue the program.
The extra dues would immediately terminate if there were concessions in any part of the contract.
My favorite parts to this plan are
1) it solves attempting to regain losses in our contract.
2) it shows other employee groups the benefit of being in a union. Imagine a ramper hearing that the furloughed pilot is making +40k from ALPA
3) it helps take away some of the stigma with working GS while there are furloughs since 5% of that GS is going to a furloughed. (I know touchy subject about GS.)
4) it is almost instantaneously cancelable since we are negotiating with only ourselves.
5) it’s a much smaller pay give than the company floated 15% ALV reduction.
I’m looking for constructive feedback if the idea has merit or if there are some hurdles of which I am unaware.
For transparency I’m 1 of the rescued 617
This probably could have gone in the other 1941 thread. I did see it mentioned in there several pages ago, by Sailing I think. The idea seemed novel and it wasn’t discussed at all.
Before I go into detail on this idea, let me explain my thought process. I think the likelihood of furloughs being prevented by any of the possible means is very low. I also don’t fully trust the company to abide by any no furlough agreement, and I really don’t want to concede items in the contract that will take years/decades to recover.
I also want to help out our soon to be unemployed ALPA brothers/sisters. So the goal for me is to mitigate the suffering of the furloughed while not conceding anything to the company.
My solution is to have ALPA increase dues by 5% on all Delta pilots that have NOT been displaced from A to B. To me those pilots have less financial wiggle room than the rest of us. This extra 5% would then be distributed to the furloughed 1941. My initial thought is to have ALPA hire the 1941 as independent contractors.
Cocktail napkin math says about 8,000 pilots would be on the hook for this extra contribution. Average annual salary for that group I estimated at 200-215k. That generated a benefit for the 1931 furloughed of 40-45k per year. Obviously not as good as them keeping their job, but way better than nothing at all. And likely saving many marriages, bankruptcies, ect...
The extra dues would have a termination point sometime in the future. A year seems appropriate. At that time we would need a MERAT to continue the program.
The extra dues would immediately terminate if there were concessions in any part of the contract.
My favorite parts to this plan are
1) it solves attempting to regain losses in our contract.
2) it shows other employee groups the benefit of being in a union. Imagine a ramper hearing that the furloughed pilot is making +40k from ALPA
3) it helps take away some of the stigma with working GS while there are furloughs since 5% of that GS is going to a furloughed. (I know touchy subject about GS.)
4) it is almost instantaneously cancelable since we are negotiating with only ourselves.
5) it’s a much smaller pay give than the company floated 15% ALV reduction.
I’m looking for constructive feedback if the idea has merit or if there are some hurdles of which I am unaware.
For transparency I’m 1 of the rescued 617
Great job getting outside the box.
09-15-2020, 06:41 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Position: 737 A
Posts: 901
Originally Posted by DenVa
I just have a problem with your A to B comment. There are just too many variables to not make it an across the board cut. To me a 73A to 330B has more wiggle room than say 7ERB to 220B. But, each situation is different.
09-15-2020, 10:14 PM
#8
Has a furrowed brow
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,160
As a soon-to-be-on-the-street guy, the fact that folks would even remotely entertain this is humbling.
Honestly, I don’t know how I’d feel about being given 40-45k a year.
Don’t get me wrong, it would be great reassurance for me and the family...but I don’t know how I could accept it without feeling an enormous amount of guilt (as silly as that may sound, not sure if that’s the word I’m looking for)
Honestly, I don’t know how I’d feel about being given 40-45k a year.
Don’t get me wrong, it would be great reassurance for me and the family...but I don’t know how I could accept it without feeling an enormous amount of guilt (as silly as that may sound, not sure if that’s the word I’m looking for)
09-15-2020, 10:20 PM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 106
Interesting idea. One way to frame this would be to come up with a number, say $40K, that seems like an agreeable amount to help get furloughees through one year. Then figure out the % that would need to be deducted from the active guys’ paychecks to meet that. It might be, say, 4.2%. Then vote on that (basically this would make everything precise—it would define the benefit and hopefully drive a number even lower than 5%).
Even more likely to pass would be to basically just put out to everyone: “if all active pilots deducted 5%, furloughed pilots would receive $xxxx per month, so please consider a 5% deduction”, then make it voluntary and hope the majority of guys would opt in. I’m new in the airline biz and maybe it’s laughable to think many guys would do this voluntarily, just throwing ideas out there.
{ full disclosure, I’m in the 1941}
Even more likely to pass would be to basically just put out to everyone: “if all active pilots deducted 5%, furloughed pilots would receive $xxxx per month, so please consider a 5% deduction”, then make it voluntary and hope the majority of guys would opt in. I’m new in the airline biz and maybe it’s laughable to think many guys would do this voluntarily, just throwing ideas out there.
{ full disclosure, I’m in the 1941}
09-15-2020, 10:30 PM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 106
Originally Posted by Wolf424
As a soon-to-be-on-the-street guy, the fact that folks would even remotely entertain this is humbling.
Honestly, I don’t know how I’d feel about being given 40-45k a year.
Don’t get me wrong, it would be great reassurance for me and the family...but I don’t know how I could accept it without feeling an enormous amount of guilt (as silly as that may sound, not sure if that’s the word I’m looking for)
Honestly, I don’t know how I’d feel about being given 40-45k a year.
Don’t get me wrong, it would be great reassurance for me and the family...but I don’t know how I could accept it without feeling an enormous amount of guilt (as silly as that may sound, not sure if that’s the word I’m looking for)
I’m a bit older and not in a bad spot if furloughed, but when I posted earlier about this being an interesting idea, I was thinking of the 29-year old new hire that just had a kid and has only flown airplanes for his adult life (minimal job prospects). This crisis is not a normal black swan; there’s never been revenue loss and uncertainty like this. So I don’t think it’s unreasonable to at least discuss helping the very junior guys out more than a “normal” furlough situation.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
