ALPA 1941 assistance
09-17-2020, 10:18 AM
#62
Rodeo clown
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Position: Tractor seat
Posts: 703
Originally Posted by sailingfun
It has no value.
Side note, if the refinery has lost money and has no value, why do we keep it at all? And why keep hemorrhaging cash on this venture that has no value, but cut a much cheaper asset (pilots at the bottom of the pay scale) which will actually serve a useful purpose when travel demand increases, possibly at a rate that exceeds training throughput to reconfigure the network in a timely manner?
09-17-2020, 11:57 AM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 757 Left
Posts: 1,306
Originally Posted by Vsop
Thanks to all of your feedback I've altered the idea slightly.
The proposal is as follows:
A monthly assessment not to exceed 3.5% of pilot pay for every non furloughed Delta pilot. This would fund the Furlough Emergency and Disaster Relief (FEDR). The assessment would be required to maintain the FEDR to a level equal to: (furloughed pilots who have not bypassed recall) x $3,300.
That $3,300/mo equates to $39,600 annually. That the furloughed pilots would have to apply to receive, and it appears the aide would come in the form of a tax free no interest loan.
If the company files any form of bankruptcy, this terminates. When all pilots are recalled, it terminates. This would need MEMRAT now, and in 1 year to continue.
I think this proposal solves most of the issues discussed. It would require all pilots to participate. The recipients would need to ask for the assistance. Lastly the aide would be in the form of a loan.
To sum up my thoughts: I'm not sure what the best way forward is for our pilot group. I do think this is a viable option worth consideration along with our other options of an LOA to prevent furloughs, and not requiring all pilots to provide anymore furlough assistance.
If you have a strong opinion on any of this or another option, now is the time to contact your reps.
Thank you again to you all for providing so much constructive feedback.
The proposal is as follows:
A monthly assessment not to exceed 3.5% of pilot pay for every non furloughed Delta pilot. This would fund the Furlough Emergency and Disaster Relief (FEDR). The assessment would be required to maintain the FEDR to a level equal to: (furloughed pilots who have not bypassed recall) x $3,300.
That $3,300/mo equates to $39,600 annually. That the furloughed pilots would have to apply to receive, and it appears the aide would come in the form of a tax free no interest loan.
If the company files any form of bankruptcy, this terminates. When all pilots are recalled, it terminates. This would need MEMRAT now, and in 1 year to continue.
I think this proposal solves most of the issues discussed. It would require all pilots to participate. The recipients would need to ask for the assistance. Lastly the aide would be in the form of a loan.
To sum up my thoughts: I'm not sure what the best way forward is for our pilot group. I do think this is a viable option worth consideration along with our other options of an LOA to prevent furloughs, and not requiring all pilots to provide anymore furlough assistance.
If you have a strong opinion on any of this or another option, now is the time to contact your reps.
Thank you again to you all for providing so much constructive feedback.
I’m hoping Cares 2 comes through and saves jobs in this government induced disaster but if not I hope DALPA is taking a serious look at what we can do to help our own. Thanks for the thought you’ve put in on this.
09-17-2020, 12:34 PM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: Resting
Posts: 376
Originally Posted by Vsop
Thanks to all of your feedback I've altered the idea slightly.
The proposal is as follows:
A monthly assessment not to exceed 3.5% of pilot pay for every non furloughed Delta pilot. This would fund the Furlough Emergency and Disaster Relief (FEDR). The assessment would be required to maintain the FEDR to a level equal to: (furloughed pilots who have not bypassed recall) x $3,300.
That $3,300/mo equates to $39,600 annually. That the furloughed pilots would have to apply to receive, and it appears the aide would come in the form of a tax free no interest loan.
If the company files any form of bankruptcy, this terminates. When all pilots are recalled, it terminates. This would need MEMRAT now, and in 1 year to continue.
I think this proposal solves most of the issues discussed. It would require all pilots to participate. The recipients would need to ask for the assistance. Lastly the aide would be in the form of a loan.
To sum up my thoughts: I'm not sure what the best way forward is for our pilot group. I do think this is a viable option worth consideration along with our other options of an LOA to prevent furloughs, and not requiring all pilots to provide anymore furlough assistance.
If you have a strong opinion on any of this or another option, now is the time to contact your reps.
Thank you again to you all for providing so much constructive feedback.
The proposal is as follows:
A monthly assessment not to exceed 3.5% of pilot pay for every non furloughed Delta pilot. This would fund the Furlough Emergency and Disaster Relief (FEDR). The assessment would be required to maintain the FEDR to a level equal to: (furloughed pilots who have not bypassed recall) x $3,300.
That $3,300/mo equates to $39,600 annually. That the furloughed pilots would have to apply to receive, and it appears the aide would come in the form of a tax free no interest loan.
If the company files any form of bankruptcy, this terminates. When all pilots are recalled, it terminates. This would need MEMRAT now, and in 1 year to continue.
I think this proposal solves most of the issues discussed. It would require all pilots to participate. The recipients would need to ask for the assistance. Lastly the aide would be in the form of a loan.
To sum up my thoughts: I'm not sure what the best way forward is for our pilot group. I do think this is a viable option worth consideration along with our other options of an LOA to prevent furloughs, and not requiring all pilots to provide anymore furlough assistance.
If you have a strong opinion on any of this or another option, now is the time to contact your reps.
Thank you again to you all for providing so much constructive feedback.
-Would it then be acceptable to pick up open time, prolonging the time recalls are made?
-Is this in addition to the 1% already approved for health insurance?
-Are all 1,941 interested in weathering the furlough through loans that need to be repaid?
Last edited by mikea72580; 09-17-2020 at 12:47 PM.
09-17-2020, 12:36 PM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
Originally Posted by Funk
Are you impugning the strategic and managerial genius of our company leadership?!?! Blasphemy!!!
Side note, if the refinery has lost money and has no value, why do we keep it at all? And why keep hemorrhaging cash on this venture that has no value, but cut a much cheaper asset (pilots at the bottom of the pay scale) which will actually serve a useful purpose when travel demand increases, possibly at a rate that exceeds training throughput to reconfigure the network in a timely manner?
Side note, if the refinery has lost money and has no value, why do we keep it at all? And why keep hemorrhaging cash on this venture that has no value, but cut a much cheaper asset (pilots at the bottom of the pay scale) which will actually serve a useful purpose when travel demand increases, possibly at a rate that exceeds training throughput to reconfigure the network in a timely manner?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-refinery-runcuts/oil-refiners-face-reckoning-as-demand-plummets-idUSKBN21K0C8
Last edited by sailingfun; 09-17-2020 at 12:49 PM.
09-17-2020, 12:46 PM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
Originally Posted by Jiggawatt
Interesting idea. One way to frame this would be to come up with a number, say $40K, that seems like an agreeable amount to help get furloughees through one year. Then figure out the % that would need to be deducted from the active guys’ paychecks to meet that. It might be, say, 4.2%. Then vote on that (basically this would make everything precise—it would define the benefit and hopefully drive a number even lower than 5%).
Even more likely to pass would be to basically just put out to everyone: “if all active pilots deducted 5%, furloughed pilots would receive $xxxx per month, so please consider a 5% deduction”, then make it voluntary and hope the majority of guys would opt in. I’m new in the airline biz and maybe it’s laughable to think many guys would do this voluntarily, just throwing ideas out there.
{ full disclosure, I’m in the 1941}
Even more likely to pass would be to basically just put out to everyone: “if all active pilots deducted 5%, furloughed pilots would receive $xxxx per month, so please consider a 5% deduction”, then make it voluntary and hope the majority of guys would opt in. I’m new in the airline biz and maybe it’s laughable to think many guys would do this voluntarily, just throwing ideas out there.
{ full disclosure, I’m in the 1941}
09-17-2020, 12:51 PM
#67
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2020
Posts: 49
The Trainor doesn’t need to show a profit. The primary customer is Delta Air Lines. If the Trainor subsidiary is profiting off Delta, then Delta is losing money to Trainor. The benefit is lowering the crack spread. It has benefited the entire industry, but us slightly more in terms of lowering the crack spread.
09-17-2020, 01:05 PM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Position: 737 A
Posts: 901
Originally Posted by mikea72580
-What would be the collateral for the loan? How would we handle defaults(Pilots leaving Delta)
-Would it then be acceptable to pick up open time, prolonging the time recalls are made?
-Is this in addition to the 1% already approved for health insurance?
-Are all 1,941 interested in weathering the furlough through loans that need to be repaid?
-Would it then be acceptable to pick up open time, prolonging the time recalls are made?
-Is this in addition to the 1% already approved for health insurance?
-Are all 1,941 interested in weathering the furlough through loans that need to be repaid?
https://deltafurlough.alpa.org/
Picking up time while pilots are on furlough will probably still be controversial. That seems like a very nuanced debate with no answer that seems to satisfy everyone.
This would be in addition to the COBRA.
Most likely some of the 1941 would not want a loan and some would want the loan. This is the main purpose for the up to language in the 3.5%. If less of the 1941 receive the money the lower the required assessment.
09-17-2020, 01:58 PM
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2019
Posts: 1,538
Originally Posted by mikea72580
-What would be the collateral for the loan? How would we handle defaults(Pilots leaving Delta)
-Would it then be acceptable to pick up open time, prolonging the time recalls are made?
-Is this in addition to the 1% already approved for health insurance?
-Are all 1,941 interested in weathering the furlough through loans that need to be repaid?
-Would it then be acceptable to pick up open time, prolonging the time recalls are made?
-Is this in addition to the 1% already approved for health insurance?
-Are all 1,941 interested in weathering the furlough through loans that need to be repaid?
I'm curious why these would necessarily have to be loans and need collateral. If a senior pilot is looking at loosing say eight hours in a concession this assessment would be much less than the hours lost. If the choice is $2000 less dollars (eight hours at 250 per hr.) or 4% (250 per hr. X 72 hr. guarantee= 18,000 X.04= 720$) I think most pilots would take the 720 loss and understand its actually a 1280 gain over concessions and the contract stays intact.
09-17-2020, 02:01 PM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,027
Originally Posted by sailingfun
Keep in mind the question is not about concessions. The company has a contractual ability to achieve its required cost savings. The decision we as pilots are making is will we share that cost concession equally or force it all on the 1941. If the furlough happens and money is offered take it without guilt. You will still be providing the majority of the cost savings.
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