ALPA 1941 assistance
09-16-2020, 11:35 AM
#31
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Originally Posted by notEnuf
If it were that simple sure. We are talking about PWA retrenchment and the future which may or may not include more furloughs or bankruptcy, right? Fighting for survival and all. If they have the savings and there's no question I don't see any reason to amend the PWA.
09-16-2020, 11:40 AM
#32
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
No reason other than keeping your fellow pilots employed and avoiding the devastation a furlough would mean for many.
09-16-2020, 11:47 AM
#33
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Originally Posted by notEnuf
That is a company decision. I still don't understand how retaining more staff than needed at any price is a good business decision if survival is the goal. Amending the PWA always permanently changes the landscape.
09-16-2020, 11:50 AM
#34
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
Its a good business decision for the company because a ALV cut allows them to reduce training substantially and positions the airline to rebound quickly should demand return. That is why in every department except flight ops Delta has instituted the equivalent to ALV cuts to manage staffing.
09-16-2020, 11:57 AM
#35
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I floated an idea like this to a pilot I was flying with a few months ago. She laughed me out of the room and started saying that she didn't think ALPA should even be paying for our COBRA. "ALPA should not be in the business of taking people's money and redistributing it," was the sentiment and something about it being socialism. I feel like you'd have a lot of that at Delta.
The other thing to think about is, with the next bailout package there is going to be some level of extra Federal assistance. Say 1200 from the Feds and 1600 from the state on average. Would this money disqualify you from those benefits?
The other thing to think about is, with the next bailout package there is going to be some level of extra Federal assistance. Say 1200 from the Feds and 1600 from the state on average. Would this money disqualify you from those benefits?
Last edited by Beta82; 09-16-2020 at 12:12 PM.
09-16-2020, 12:21 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by p3flteng
Its a good idea in principal, some thoughts:
what do you say to those pilots who are senior on the list that already went through furloughs with no help and then got shafted in bankruptcy and lost their pension? Those guys were called out for trying to get overweighted retirement improvements in the recent contract discussions (precovid). My position was inline with most mid seniority to junior pilots...Sorry, but to take from the young to fund the senior 15 years later is not a viable solution. Hence it’s a hard argument to say to them, well the shoes on the other foot now, so help me now when I was unwilling to support making said dead zoner retirements whole.
second, many guys might have an issue with people getting 40k while not actually doing anything to earn it. Spitballing, but how about you make it a loan to said furloughed pilots, who when theyAre back on property have an additional dues deduction to repay said funds, say 3% until the ‘loan’ is repaid? This money can go back into a special account, and eventually it gets repaid to the initial pilots who had the additional funds withheld to help the furloughed guys.
not sure about the tax implications...for any of this.
its pretty clear the company doesn’t give a sh!t about these guys, and are willing to sacrifice them on the alter of a contract / work rule reset....so anything we can do to help with in reason should be on the table for discussion.
what do you say to those pilots who are senior on the list that already went through furloughs with no help and then got shafted in bankruptcy and lost their pension? Those guys were called out for trying to get overweighted retirement improvements in the recent contract discussions (precovid). My position was inline with most mid seniority to junior pilots...Sorry, but to take from the young to fund the senior 15 years later is not a viable solution. Hence it’s a hard argument to say to them, well the shoes on the other foot now, so help me now when I was unwilling to support making said dead zoner retirements whole.
second, many guys might have an issue with people getting 40k while not actually doing anything to earn it. Spitballing, but how about you make it a loan to said furloughed pilots, who when theyAre back on property have an additional dues deduction to repay said funds, say 3% until the ‘loan’ is repaid? This money can go back into a special account, and eventually it gets repaid to the initial pilots who had the additional funds withheld to help the furloughed guys.
not sure about the tax implications...for any of this.
its pretty clear the company doesn’t give a sh!t about these guys, and are willing to sacrifice them on the alter of a contract / work rule reset....so anything we can do to help with in reason should be on the table for discussion.
In the end everything with the PWA and the company is a cost. It's nothing personal. There is a cost to carrying excess personnel in every business. Can all the jobs be preserved? Yes at a cost and at the expense of something else. The price tag from the company is too high right now. You may be able to argue the cost claimed by the Union is too low. Agree to what that amount is and then let the union internally decide the mechanism of how to achieve it. We get bogged down in conspiracy theories and the mechanisms in place to execute those theories.
With regards to the minimum balance. The majority of the group that would have been eligible had not been furloughed or only encountered a short furlough. The middle seniority group is who had the long furloughs. Since they were junior around 9/11 they did not have much vested in the pension. However, the age 65 hit was big. No movement for furlough plus an additional 5 years of stagnation. Delaying moving to the left seat by 5 years is a massive hit on compounding for retirement when your only vehicle available from the company is a 401. The minimum balance was extremely unpopular in a lot of this group. Much of that group was also caught without reinstatement rights. The biggest issue imo for the furloughee is protecting future seat progression and funding their 401 when there is time for compounding.
09-16-2020, 03:23 PM
#37
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I’d kick in 5%.
But:
- I think DALPA and the company are trying to work out something to mitigate furloughs.
- CARES 2 is looking more likely as Trump just threw Senate Republicans under the bus saying he wants a bigger CARES 2.
But:
- I think DALPA and the company are trying to work out something to mitigate furloughs.
- CARES 2 is looking more likely as Trump just threw Senate Republicans under the bus saying he wants a bigger CARES 2.
09-16-2020, 03:46 PM
#38
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
Its a good business decision for the company because a ALV cut allows them to reduce training substantially and positions the airline to rebound quickly should demand return. That is why in every department except flight ops Delta has instituted the equivalent to ALV cuts to manage staffing.
Thats incorrect. Many employees have been shown the door. Either take this package or leave empty handed. 100’s of positions have been outright eliminated.
09-16-2020, 03:57 PM
#39
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I applaud the out of the box thinking on this, but still having a hard time with an employee’s Labor union providing the employee with a paycheck. Or what amounts really to strangers giving furloughed pilots a portion of their pay. Look, we have a lot in common with one another, and we have to work together to collectively improve our work lives, but the truth is, every time I come to work, I’m basically meeting a stranger that I’ve probably never met before. We have lots in common and get along great, but that person doesn’t owe me anything. My job is a relationship between myself and my employer. I try to put myself in the place of a 1st year Delta pilot, and I just don’t think I’d have any expectation for a stranger to reach into his pocket and give me a substantial amount of money each month. Just doesn’t seem real.
Last edited by mikea72580; 09-16-2020 at 04:29 PM.
09-16-2020, 04:20 PM
#40
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Originally Posted by mikea72580
I applaud the out of the box thinking on this, but still having a hard time with an employee’s Labor union providing the employee with a paycheck. Or what amounts really to strangers giving furloughed pilots a portion of their pay. Look, we have a lot in common with one another, and we have to work together to collective improve our work lives, but the truth is, every time I come to work, I’m basically meeting a stranger that I’ve probably never met before. We have lots in common and get along great, but that person doesn’t owe me anything. My job is a relationship between myself and my employer. I try to put myself in the place of a 1st year Delta pilot, and I just don’t think I’d have any expectation for a stranger to reach into his pocket and give me a substantial amount of money each month. Just doesn’t seem real.
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