WB Reserve
 

What is life like as a WB reserve? Particularly NYC 330 and 765. Pre-covid how many trips and short calls were you averaging a month? Any thoughts on the QOL would be appreciated

Not sure about NYC, but a lot of times junior pilots are forced into a line because the senior folks bid reserve. Especially in the winter.

I’ve done WB reserve both in base and as a commuter. I could tell you but....... what’s your seniority number?:D

I was the plug for a time on the NY 765 4-5 years ago, and I typically did 3 SC and 2-3 trips a month, with some variance but not much. Almost all 3-day, 44-50 hour TAFB. Glorious. I never got forced into a line, FWIW.

The only downside was the 2-day non-commutable domestic trans cons that started one winter, then came back permanantly the second winter. Non-commutable on both ends. If you live in NY, it’s great. If not, it sucked bad. They were always in open time. A lot.

I have no idea what the current bid packet has, or what network has planned. I left before the cabin upgrades, so maybe someone current can help out with how network has been using them, of if there are any rumors within the fleet. Good luck.

NY 767-400 with domestic is going to suck big time for commuters...and clearly stated in the AE memo.

Also remember with 7ER (and above) on Reserve, you have to do 4 days in a row minimum.
on smaller jets I would bid 5 Mon-Fri Reserve, then personal drop Wednesday a lot. That way I hardly got used. You can not do that on 7ER and larger

Where is that written? I know there are different lengths of block reserves days required based on the airframe, and I know you can't move X-days around to violate those requirements, but I'm trying to find where you aren't allowed to P/D or A/PD a day in that block.

pretty sure PCS will give you a “violates x day parameters” error if you try. Been a while since I tried it though.

23.I.9 Exception 1, and exception to if the category has an MSL (which I don't think any do right now).

It actually says a PD "may" be denied. I tried it occasionally over a couple year period and never once had it approved, even on days with plenty of coverage.

Can you cover LC from home, including the domestic 2 day trips? That will be your biggest QOL variable.

ah..there it is. I was looking in the reserve area not the PD drop area. Thanks.

How difficult is it to cover LC from ATL if based in NYC? It looks like all the 330 trips start in the late afternoon, early evening. It seems like it wouldn't be too difficult, but I'd love to hear from those who have done it. Thanks

Precovid, there were 30+ ATL-NYC flights per day, but getting a seat to the preferred airport (JFK) could be much more difficult. Lots of Airbus jump seats to LGA, and the car/Uber ride is pretty reasonable both in price and time. EWR adds more options (and more likely open), but the car/Uber ride takes longer and is much more expensive. The other question is how quickly you can get yourself to ATL from the time you get the call? It’s a short flight, but if you need time to respond and get to ATL, have a backup (depends on the commuting rules in force at the time), and get from LGA or EWR to JFK, those all add complexity and time. Lastly, before taking the word/perception of an anonymous clown like myself, I would strongly suggest looking at the scheduled flight options and the cost/time of notional Uber rides from other airports. If you don’t want to do that, how likely are you to keep up with the changing options to keep yourself legal for the commute? YMMV

Its reasonable to sit long call in ATL. As the schedule returns there are lots of options to JFK and LGA. The last flights of the night are late enough and first flights early enough that you won’t have a witching hour or two were you are hanging it out like many commutes to NY.

I did it on the 765 4-5 years ago. At that time, it was very doable to be fully legal with lots of options (since all the reports were late afternoon or evening, as were the SC starts. Notable exception were 2-day non-commutable domestic trips). Probably half the time I was on the JS, half as a non-rev. I took a cab between LGA & JFK once, and did the subway once just so I knew how. Otherwise, I always took an Uber. Easy peasy.

Public transportation to/from EWR is a lot cheaper and many times quicker than taking an Uber. Airtrain to train to subway to either bus or airtrain can be a bit tricky if you’ve never done it, but Citymapper will spell out exactly what you need to do. Well worth a try.

Speaking of widebody reserve.... it appears the optimizer has hit the widebodies.

Looking at some trips on ATL330 for next month. Trips down to Chile and Argentina. 9-10 hours down, 13-14 hour ground time (all during the daylight hours) and 9-10 hours back. Is this normal for the widebodies at all and the picture of things to come? Because this might be the kind of trip a junior widebody reserve pilot will getting a lot of.

Yikes. That sounds very fatiguing. Here's hoping that's not what we'll see going forward.

ER used to have the $2 Brasilia rocket. Sounds similar, went senior due to efficiency. Wont last in open time long.

Agreed, that is extremely efficient. You do 1 of those a week and you are at 80 hours for 12 days of work. Probably lose a day on the backend though due to being exhausted.

And how many years do you lose off the end of your life by doing that month after month?

No idea, I would not do those if I had a choice.

Dunno - but whenever I see a FA (male or female) who talks about working 120+ hours a month, red eye turns and lots of flying... I think to myself, "yep, you sure look like it. I can see the fatigue taking its toll."

I hate the deep south, double red-eye rotations. I think they suck but guys do them.

Any thoughts on what a junior 765, 330, or 350 F/O would typically credit per month? I'm basing math on the reserve guarantee floor of 72 hours per month, but I see lineholders often completing schedules just over 65 hours. As a mid-seniority narrowbody F/O living in base I've consistently averaged 94 hours of credit per month working 15 days, including roughly 6 hours of premium pay per month. I'm curious what a realistic full year comparison would be.

30% WB in category, 3-4 Small GS per year, I figured 78 hours of credit for budget. It appears you will have to weigh the paycut vs QOL. Senior FO’s all played the GS game, I was lucky to get one toward end of month

Thanks for the data point. I can justify some pay reduction to try the widebody QOL, especially if reserve in base is possible. The math tells me that commuting for a widebody spot probably isn't worth it.

I was doing the same analysis. I credit much less than you on the NB though so 65-67 but at higher rate is still a pay raise for me. The kicker is 5 additional nights in my bed due to commutability. So pick up 1 3 day trip with 16 hours and you’re at 81-83 WB B rate. Plus still more nights at home than NB. It’s a no brainer for me. Even commuting to reserve sounds pretty appealing at this point.

Yeah, if commuting either way it would be a no-brainer.

I was living in base at 90% on the 330 and averaged 78 hours like Boog. However, that's because I would drop my entire schedule and pick up broken up/highly efficient trips as they appeared in open time. I'm not so sure that will be an option over the next year or so, and frankly most guys were unwilling to take that gamble. Most months my awarded line would be two 6-day trips worth 68 hours, in the summer they'd usually add another 3-day and bump the pay up 84 hours. I'd rarely ever get a GS, so maybe I'd get 1 a year. It's generally the same few senior guys getting the GS every month. I couldn't even get a GS over Christmas most years. I'd maybe get 1 or 2 SC a month and I think I only got called once on SC (5 hour callout)...over 3 years I probably bid reserve 50% of the time.

What's your view on the pay? Do you need/want the total dollars? What's a day off worth to you? Even at 68 hours for 12 days, your pay per day of work is more than working 15 days for 94 hours on a NB. International trips sign in later in the day and sign out fairly early in the afternoon/evening, also a plus.

Any one know what the last WB fleet changes will be in the next couple years? I know that our current plan isn't good for more than about 24 hours from when it was put to paper....but I thought we had a bunch of 330-900's and 350's on the way over the next couple years.

What are the thoughts on future WB positions in coming AE's. Or if you don't pull off a WB on this bid will it be a long time before they have openings again?

There is a lot of growth on the 330 fleet over the next few years. Here is the most recent delivery schedule...2021-3, 2022-8, 2023-8, 2024-7, 2025-3. That growth coupled with around 400-500 retirements a year should lead to plenty of widebody positions going forward.

Any plans to retire some of the older 330s?

Having commutes to reserve in both WB B and NB A, here is my take. I only did reserve in months I had vacation or the very occasional month I knew they would be short. Once a year Inwould do the thunder, but it never worked out quite like I hoped...

The short call thing is what takes the wind out of the sails. Usually didn’t get used, a hotel Bill and two days at home gone for commuting up and back. Plan at least 3-4....in a vacation month, maybe 2.

I’m not exactly following your comparison. Are you talking about commuting to WB B in the above description? So in those reserve months with SCs how many days were you actually used?

Looking at the lift we’ve lost (767/777) I find it hard to believe we won’t see some additional WB order in the next year or so. Even with 339s replacing 767 and 359 replacing 777, that has still a loss from 2019.

Commute to SEA330B. Depends on days available. Those with 5 or more usually get assigned SC (2-4 per month) with junior getting more. But that’s been over the last year. Prior to COVID, I never bid reserve. 2 x 6 day trips = 70-76 hours per month. Can be difficult to WS because a 3 HND is worth over 19. Lots of swapping instead.

Commuting to reserve on both. Rarely used when ON SC. I would say before this year, I would get 1/2 the number of SC ‘s than max....BUT this year, I have been used on reserve or placed on SC almost 100% of max SC’s. Obviously short staffed on NB....One time when only good for 2 hours (10-12 before a golden day). Yes, I understand why they do it.

Any question why scope is in focus? Watch the feet.

So you’re saying commuting to WB B reserve is very different from NB A?