Finally giving hotels to new hires
 

6/22 class was told we finally changed the policy

Wow. At last catching up to even the shabbiest regionals.

Almost at industry standard? That can't be this is Delta Air Lines!

About freaking time! We are still behind industry standard new hire compensation but at least it’s a start.

We are? If APC is still up to date, we're at or ahead of all the other carriers for first year pay. I know I made more year 1 on the 737 than I would have made year two on the 757 at my previous legacy.

Either way, great news on the new hire hotels!

I believe they are getting at the newhire training pay. How you don't convert to your hourly rate until you're done with OE. Everywhere else just gives you your normally hourly rate at what ever is the normal average or even a higher average such as 75 or 80 hrs a month.

Ah yes, forgot about that. Ya, that's pretty dumb. I think FDX do the same as us. I also think they don't (or didn't) pay for new hire hotels. Either way, it's crap and I agree that it puts us below industry standard.

Correct. We are on training pay (4k) a month until IOE completion. About a year ago we started providing hotels for the first 2 weeks of Indoc. Its definitely something that needs to be corrected in our current CBA negotiations. I think it was one of our openers iteams when we opened 2 months ago.

Hotels were provided during indoc as far back as I remember in 2015…on your own for initial training ground school/sims/IOE though.
OP, are you saying hotels are covered now for all portions of training until end of sims?

Guess they realize the competition for pilots will be intense over the next few years

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wouldn’t be much of a thread if it was “things stay the same as they’ve been for years,” would it?

like der meister said, it’s not the NH hourly rate that is sub par (that is actually pretty good) it’s the NBCNEW pay equal to about 55 hrs a month of new hire pay with no per diem and having to pay for uniforms that is industry lagging

i could be wrong, but I think
UA pays 3hrs/day while in training whether or not you are home or in Denver +uniforms, hotels & per diem

AA pays ALV for that category + hotels & per diem

WN pays reserve guarantee + hotels & per diem

There you go again, Oofff. :rolleyes:

sorry. Should have edited in a smiley so the jovial tone was retained

This is a very welcome announcement, about three decades late. Hotels for training have evolved from absymal to pretty good with this announcement. A summary,

1. Until after 2000 at least (I was hired in late 96/early 97) new hires didn't get a hotel for any part of initial qual, from day one of indoc until you were complete. The only exception was for any training offsite, such as in MIA. Then you got the hotel, and a few of us did indeed get to go offsite for a few sims.

1a. At some point years later, new hires got a hotel for the first couple of weeks of indoc. Not as good as for all of training, but still, two weeks of indoc is better than nothing.

2. Not only did new hires get nothing, it wasn't until a lot of the post-BK agreements where we secured a lot of incremental improvements over the course of numerous side letters, that ATL-based commuters got training for initial. The awful contractual language stated "a pilot will get a hotel for training away from his base." (emphasis added). So, if you were a TPA commuter based in ATL on the 88, and then went to training on the 767....it was back to a crashpad for you! How wonderful.

3. Commuters also didn't get a hotel or PS for travel to/from CQ.

4. Now, we have the following:

- hotel for all students in initial qual for a new airplane, whether or not you are ATL-based
- hotel for CQ for anyone living further than 50 miles away
- PS for ATL commuters going to CQ (not as big a deal right this moment due to the PS provisions of LOA 20-04, but still valuable)
- and now, a hotel for the duration of all newhire training

5. This should have always been the norm. But better late than never I suppose. Whether it was a true "let's do the right thing" (doubtful) or more of a "we're going to lose a lot of good pilots to other carriers if we keep up with this cheapskate approach" (likely) it is a very welcome policy change.

And one last thing. Believe it or not, hotels for all of newhire training were part of the rejected TA-1. It never should have been part of any contractual language. The company, as they have just shown, could have provided them anytime they ever wanted to. The PWA had nothing to do with it.

But I applaud mgmt for making this decision.

careful, you’ll get roasted for that kind of talk

That would have helped. ;)

I agree its good they decided to do that. Should make it even easier to put it in the CBA next time. Now hopefully we can do away with the "training pay" concept. Especially until after OE. Pay issues need to be in the PWA though, as we can't allow the company to provide "off contract" money however they want. The cherry on top would be provided uniforms and a nice training hotel area. I think UAL provides all IQ hotels in a nice downtown DEN area and runs shuttles to their training center by the airport. Obviously that costs more, but is worth it just for training QOL, let alone safety issues.

But haven’t these initial quals been ‘on property’ over a year, off probation even? Seems they would have to be provided rooms. Not quite the same as rooms for new (2021) hires.

the 6/22 class is new hires new to the seniority list.

the previous bunch of pilots has already completed indoc (either in Feb/March of last year or May of this year) and will be in sims throughout the summer. That group will also get hotels

The 6/22 class is completely new. A new system plug has arrived.

Edit: got beat to the punch

Any words on hotel retro?

I kid, I kid.

Great news! The 3 year FO that had much angst over new hire hotels and how low his starting pay was will be joyous. Of course those rants were followed by the senior guys,”with their two houses and boats” should have planned better (with regard to losing their pensions). Long trip. Regardless, nice perk for newbies.

Ah, that takes me back.

First time I opened the ground level window, I saw a lady of the evening in flagrante delicto in the alley behind the hotel.

Not deterred, I opened the window on the second night, and saw an abandoned car on fire.

I did not open the window a third time. The widow view was edgier than HBO and Cinemax combined.

('Twas a very shabby regional. But, the hotel was free. And gated. With armed security 24/7.)

Homeboy Suites in MEM?

About time! I'm glad they finally changed this. Maybe BB actually read some of the newhire surveys?

This is great news. The new VP - Pilot Training and Standards is a solid leader. Expect more good things to come from him.

Yeah right. If he keeps making these pilot friendly decisions, he’ll soon be out of a job.

Training pay was $4,600 back in 2016 and $5,100 back in 2019.

I get the joke but he's been working up the ranks quickly these last few years. I hope he's the next VP Flight Ops.

This is good news, now they need to pay for their uniforms too.

FIxed it....

This is a fair move by Delta. It was also resolved by apparent market forces. I like keeping our negotiating capital for those already on board, rather that using our contract mojo to help Delta attract pilot candidates. They will do what's necessary to fill the pipeline without current pilots helping to lift the load. Kinda like the 50 seat RJ issue ... self-resolving via competitive realities.

Glad for the new guys.

what were we willing to give/gave up for this :confused:

I've posted this before. I know BS, worked with him; he's a solid dude.

I hope he moves further up the ladder. It will bode well for this pilot group.

Fingers crossed

Exactly

Shocker. At least you already had a megaphone and pom-poms from your previous cheering.

He is off course slashing IOE requirements and reducing sim period length and briefing times.

I'm fine reducing briefing times...we'll see if they reverse course on sims when pilots ask for extra sessions

Are you referring to TOE, new hire observation, or actual IOE?

I was kinda surprised all new hires had to do observation flights TBH. Might be useful for someone new to 121 pax ops, but for us coming from regionals/LCCs it kinda seems like a waste.

Disagree. 90 min Briefs are largely an inefficient use of time. If I was the decision maker students would review the PowerPoint at home then come in for a 30 min review then hop in the Sim.

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