737/320 vs 7ER QOL/Money difference
 

Currently on the 320 B and looking at possibly switching over to the ER B. Was wondering if it's worth the incremental pay increase per hour and if there are as many GS opportunities on the ER vs the NBs. Seniority here at LAX is going to be relatively the same bottom 10% across all 3 categories. Are the trips any better on the ER with that low of a seniority number?

I would not jump from a large, rapidly growing fleet like the 320 to a flat, perhaps even shrinking fleet like the 7ER. IMO, the extensive training plus sitting around waiting for OE isn't worth all the GSs you would miss on the 320 unless you are really passionate to fly international or the 757. 320 flight deck is way more modern, 321 pays nearly the same and 321 NEO might be even closer in payrate is not even(fingers crossed)

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Following this thread... same questions, but ATL

What I really want is the 330 or 350 but we all know how senior those two categories are. Plus I would have to either commute to SEA for the 330 or wait forever for the 350. Looking at LAX ER trips, a lot of Hawaii layovers which I would not mind at all. I'm from the regionals and I'm used to the same 737/320 layovers. Money-wise it looks like a no-brainer to stay put where I am.

Decisions, decisions. Is the ER more junior than the 320/737s over there?

I wouldn't bid that fleet for Hawaii layovers. Our first 20 321neo will be ETOPS specifically to takeover Hawaii from the 757.

When that happens what the heck will the LAX 7ER fly?

Bottom 10% LAX GS opportunities are pretty minimal on the 7ER and likely only to get worse

Just going to play a little devil's advocate.

Currently, yes, greenslips are few and far between for west coast 7ER FOs. SEA and LAX 7ER were staffed for the SEA-Asia and Hawaii-Asia flying that was being done before it was transferred to other fleets or eliminated for the time being due to covid. SEA 7ER at its peak was something like 110 As and 200 Bs. FO staffing there hasn't been an issue lately because of that. However, the April AE removed the augmentation out of both bases, which combined with the massive churn in all of the 7ER FO categories, should result in more greenslip opportunities for FOs. That being said, I think it's unlikely you're going to make any extra money on the 7ER vs the 320 or the 73N.

As far as hawaii goes, yes, I would assume the 321NEOs will eventually replace most of the 7ER flying to there off the west coast. That being said, I think we're probably at least a year, and more likely 2 years away from that happening en masse. It will take time to get enough frames on property, and I would think the plane will likely spend a year or so flying domestically as they work out the kinks before they send them to Hawaii. Once that does happen, LAX 7ER is likely to shrink, allowing for a potential displacement bid, and SEA 7ER is likely toast.

Also, anyone either currently on property or just about to come on property shouldn't have to worry about being in the bottom 10% out west. The April AE left ~25% of the total SEA 7ER B and ~30% of the LAX 7ER B positions open.

Yup I would stay in the 320 and make cash til you can hold 330 or 350 which shouldn't be too long based on how things are going. 330/350 are historically 95% intl flying along with payrates that are substantially higher than the 320 compared to the 7ER. IMO a month on Virginia Ave plus a long wait for OE is not worth $10ish/hr

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Commuting (presumably) to a month of training that will happen who knows when, to fly a Boeing, incurring a seat lock on the bottom of a dying fleet in uncertain times for ALV pay, uncertain OE/TOE and a future bid pack we can’t predict? Sure wouldn’t be worth it for me, but different strokes for different folks, I guess. At least you can join the 757 love-gushing club whenever the topic comes up hundreds of times in your decades ahead. There have been so many surprises along the way that perhaps a good one is due, but I can’t think of many good reasons to make that particular jump. I’d personally sit tight and wait for a SEA330B slot if hourly pay is an attraction for you. I bet a GS or two will eclipse the 320/7ER income difference easily while you wait. JMHO.

Take the ER, do some Hawaii, see what transcons are like, enjoy something new.

With the newer A321neos coming online, what else is attractive besides the current Hawaii flying?

Not sure why everyone seems to think a long wait for TOE is a bad thing. You know we get paid while waiting right? As someone about to finish IQ on the ER, I say throw me in that briar patch! Almost 300 an hour to grow a beard and occasionally review flows? Yes please :D

Is it worth commuting for? Never flew INTL WB so not sure what the pros are vs. being in base on a NB frame.

300 an hour? Surely you mean 200. :P

I would stay on the 320. You will move up faster in seniority. I know a few people who will NOT leave the ER till they are forced to displace. They are dug in on that jet.
also, the bottom of the ER bid package looked like CRAP last I looked.

lol, good luck

If you can sit long call from home or are senior enough to hold a line ( doesn’t take much percentage wise in most pure WB categories) then absolutely yes. Otherwise probably stay NB for the time being.

Edit: This is just one data point of course as I’m sure there will be those who say never ever commute. As for me, I went from driving to work on the 73 in Seattle to commuting SEA-LAX for the 777. Even with the commute I worked far less hours and made more money. YMMV.

Go for the ER and try something new; If it’s awful then bid off ASAP. This is the nice thing about working for DAL.

…except for the double trip to Virginia Avenue…

True. If that’s a deterrent, then bwyw. Or not. Easy!

ASAP as in 2 years later?

I would stay put until you can hold the 330. The ER simply is not what it was a few years ago, the glory days are over on it.

There is that 2 year seat lock...

True. If that’s also a deterrent, then he will bw(h)w. Or not. Still Easy.


and yes, seat locks stink

Any particular reason the ER has been going so junior (new hires)? As an outsider looking in, it seems like the ER would be the ideal aircraft?

When that happens then you'll have to start debating if you take the upgrade into the 220/73 or take the seat lock for the wide body. The decisions only get harder.

No seat lock for first time Capt is there?

If I’m being honest, an airline career simply wouldn’t be worth commuting to. But that is just me and obviously tens of thousands of pilots make it work, many very happily. I also happen to live in a domicile that I’d live in even without this job, so that’s easy for me to say.

Any Internet advice from anonymous people who don’t know your situation (personality, family situation, likes/dislikes, finances, hobbies, etc.) is honestly pretty worthless. Even advice from one’s closest friends and family can tend to be advice those friends and family are really just giving themselves. But since you’re here asking…if I were living in LA and junior on the 320, I would stay put and let my seniority rise incrementally for the next couple of years. I’d avoid Virginia Ave and keep my powder dry (and seat unlocked) to get a sense of where this company and this industry and this country and NB big packs are headed. The ER category is nothing like it was even 10 years ago - the airplane wouldn’t draw me, and I wouldn’t find the seniority penalty to switch to it (I think you’ll rise faster on 320) worthwhile. Good luck to you - in the end there’s more than one right answer and you can enjoy any path you end up on.

This!



If you haven't flown in a strictly WB international category then that isn't a hard decision at all. Go fly the 330 or 350 for a year and if you don't like it, you can bid over to the left seat.

Stating anonymous internet advice is worthless, is a pretty silly statement. The OP can use the experiences and perspectives of others to apply to his own personal situation/preferences, which can help him form his own decision. I've used this forum and others countless time to help form decisions through out my career, particularly the decision to skip Widebody FO and go for Capt.

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Got to agree with Trip here. Anonymous internet advice is not to be taken as fact, or as right or wrong, but is merely food for thought.

I have learned a lot from teenagers in their parents basement over the years. :)

Scoop

11300ish seniority here, live 1:20 drive from NYC, putting in 7ER from 320 next AE. IMO the 320 trips are awful, showtimes are awful (either super early or super late), layovers are awful and boring (most of them get in too late to even grab a beer). The 320 is a boring plane to fly. I don’t care about a tray table or fancy ergonomics. I wanted to try something new, and wanted to fly the 75/76 before it goes away for good. YMMV.

i agree with Extenda on moving to ER (but not OP).
11300 in NYC ER would be decent, and he will move up fast. Plus NYC probably has the best overall ER flying in the system. And driving distance to nyc means you don’t care about checkin times.
lax on the other hand is more senior, and the trips seem worse on the ER

Doesn’t pay much more than 321/739 and typically you can get better seniority on those fleets, so easier to make money if you want. Also it’s marked as a shrinking fleet, so locking yourself to it for two years, plus until the next AE, then your conversion can keep you on it longer than you expect, not fun when it eventually sees more jets parked, you’ll be on a shrinking fleet as the unlocked people above bail out. A321 pays a hair less than 7ER, is continually growing, and in every base bad Seattle. If you don’t want one of the four corners, ER doesn’t do you much good. 73N also does some nice flying, transcons and islands, so you can get your fill there and again, historically be more senior. Other downside of ER is for newhires, you’re on training pay until done with TOE.

Not exactly sure what you mean here…..

There is a seat lock for any AE including bidding to Captain for the first time. As an FO with a seat lock bidding to Captain for the first time, you can do it but I think whatever seat lock you have left in the FO position is added to your Captain bid seat lock. Or something like that.

Denny

Well, it gets you out of a lock, but that lock is added to your sentence.

Yup, I did a 3.5 year sentence on the 717, which wasn't so bad when there was West Coast flying before everything consolidated into East of the Mississippi ex-CRJ200 flying

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To be precise, I said “pretty worthless,” with the modifier about people who don’t know any of the poster’s situational details. You’ll note I still offered some thoughts to try to be helpful. The question was originally posed without much perspective, so as Rumsfeld might have said, there are a lot of known unknowns, very few known knowns and an unknown number of unknown unknowns :-)

We are all more likely to get actionable information if we provide a little extra detail WRT our own situation so advice can be tailored to it. My advice to a single 20-something sharing an apartment 30 minutes from LAX is likely to be different than that to a commuting mother of 6 who can’t sleep on an airplane.

Yes, it was. Enlightenment begins with honesty.

Congrats on the 737. Night and day, as you know.

More of a philosophical discussion since the West Coast flying on the 717 doesn't exist anymore, but if that was bad what do you call today's 717 flying?

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