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-   -   Trip quality? Ouch (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/134576-trip-quality-ouch.html)

bugman61 08-16-2021 05:59 AM


Originally Posted by UGBSM (Post 3280235)
So what are some techniques for getting out of a rotation? I see even somewhat junior pilots in my category that drop all of their trips and just pick up broken trips all month long. How do they do it? How do you manage to get rid of a four day trip over a weekend? Im not talking about bidding Mon-Fri trips and then PD them. They don't APD, PD, IVD, or sickout yet somehow every month they do it. Is there a swap with the pot trick?


I’ve had very good success using swap with the pot. Unless it’s a holiday, the reserve formula deals with the sum of the negative numbers so there are lots of options if you can find a worse day that you are not working.

Rooster435 08-16-2021 06:13 AM


Originally Posted by UGBSM (Post 3280235)
So what are some techniques for getting out of a rotation? I see even somewhat junior pilots in my category that drop all of their trips and just pick up broken trips all month long. How do they do it? How do you manage to get rid of a four day trip over a weekend? Im not talking about bidding Mon-Fri trips and then PD them. They don't APD, PD, IVD, or sickout yet somehow every month they do it. Is there a swap with the pot trick?

As you get close in and the trips start to break up, the reserve staffing can really go negative. That’s when you swap with your trips later in the month.

Don't discount IVDs. IVDs are very valuable as well, you get 2 plus an extra one for each extra vacation day awarded from the sick leave incentive. Lot of categories get 4 IVDs this year. You have to have vacation left in the year to use them though.

Pickup a trip late in the current month that conflicts with a trip early in the next month. Drops the trip in the following month regardless of reserve coverage.

Helps tremendously to live in base and you have to constantly hawk Icrew.

I’m sub 80% in category and have only had to do a 4-day trip 3 times since March.

crewdawg 08-16-2021 06:26 AM


Originally Posted by Rooster435 (Post 3280247)
Helps tremendously to live in base and you have to constantly hawk Icrew.

One of the many reasons I miss iCrewMax! So much better of a display than what we have now.

Gunfighter 08-16-2021 08:19 AM


Originally Posted by crewdawg (Post 3280251)
One of the many reasons I miss iCrewMax! So much better of a display than what we have now.

I'm gonna miss EZ Swap and Widget Works, the companions to EZ Bid. Are there any other options for trip sorting and mass uploads of blind swaps? EZ Swap was good for at least one schedule improvement every month for the last decade plus.

HTBH 08-16-2021 09:36 AM


Originally Posted by Gunfighter (Post 3280287)
I'm gonna miss EZ Swap and Widget Works, the companions to EZ Bid. Are there any other options for trip sorting and mass uploads of blind swaps? EZ Swap was good for at least one schedule improvement every month for the last decade plus.

100% agree on this. Widget Works paid for an entire careers worth of payments for it the first month I had it. Couldn't believe more pilots didn't use this stuff. Will be interesting to see what happens once ARCOS handles the white slip stuff down the road.

ShyGuy 08-16-2021 11:09 AM


Originally Posted by Myfingershurt (Post 3273870)
Yeah, it’s seems NYC guys are always getting hosed. I just saw there commutable trips dropped from 4% to 1%. I guess crew resources is aiming for the ultimate goal of 0% commutable trips.

How do you define a commutable trip? Start after when, end before when? It seems it would be subjective depending on the pilot.

fishforfun 08-16-2021 11:41 AM


Originally Posted by ShyGuy (Post 3280344)
How do you define a commutable trip? Start after when, end before when? It seems it would be subjective depending on the pilot.

I always wondered what crew resources and ALPA use for that definition as well in the crew resources news letters.

UGBSM 08-16-2021 12:49 PM


Originally Posted by Rooster435 (Post 3280247)
As you get close in and the trips start to break up, the reserve staffing can really go negative. That’s when you swap with your trips later in the month.

What does this mean?

How do you use swaps to get an unwanted trip off your schedule? Not talking about swap board. Obviously you can drop a trip with that, but nowadays nobody wants to pick up much there.

Rooster435 08-16-2021 12:57 PM

As an example, You swap a 2-day trip that has days with a higher cumulative negative reserves available than a 4 day trip.

2- day trip
Day 1 15 required 4 available
day 2 10 required 4 available

4-day trip
Day 1 15 required 12 available
Day 2 14 required 10 available
Day 3 10 required 6 available
Day 4 12 required 8 available

The 2-day is a cumulative -17
The 4-day is a cumulative -15

The swap would go thru.

Or for a real world example. There is a 2-day in NYC ERB right now, starts on the 18th, commutable on both ends, 1 leg to SJU, 1 leg back. Cumulative -35 on reserves. You could swap a 3 or 4 day from many dates the rest of the month and it would go thru.

UGBSM 08-16-2021 01:28 PM


Originally Posted by Rooster435 (Post 3280366)
As an example, You swap a 2-day trip that has days with a higher cumulative negative reserves available than a 4 day trip.

2- day trip
Day 1 15 required 4 available
day 2 10 required 4 available

4-day trip
Day 1 15 required 12 available
Day 2 14 required 10 available
Day 3 10 required 6 available
Day 4 12 required 8 available

The 2-day is a cumulative -17
The 4-day is a cumulative -15

The swap would go thru.

Thanks for the example!

So the effect of the swap is ... you fly the two day trip you just "swapped into" and your four day trip later in the month drops off your line and into open time?


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