We got $800 million more. And as Mike Hanson and the Moakies love to say, “plus compounding”.

Sailing you’ve never met a concession you didn’t love.

Even if you are right in terms of total W-2, that's only with 20/20 hindsight. No way that could have been predicted. And ratifying a TA out of fear of something like that is absurd.

Having said that, TA1 had a LOT of turds in it, and I'm 100% comfortable with my opposition to it.

Where did you come up with the 800 million figure? That certainly was not per year. It might have been over the life of the 4 year contract or 200 million a year. Keep in mind we were asking for 3 billion a year in improvements on contract 2019.

I voted against TA1 and voted for TA2. I posted at the time however that the extra year was a significant concession. Because of how the RLA functions and their concept of the zone of reasonableness short ontime contracts are by far the best way to improve both pay and QOL. We seem as a group to have to relearn this lesson over and over.

So, if the contract would have been one year shorter(amendable at end of 2018), do you think we would have gotten a deal in the 15 months prior to COVID? Based on what I remember about the adversarial relations and Company immediately applying for mediation, I don’t think so. And then we’d be 4 percent down from where we are now.

Sailing, agree that the extra year was a concession, but one that was dwarfed by the massive concessions in TA1. Short ontime contracts are great all things equal, but not if they are as negative for the pilot group as TA1 was.

Source for your $3B ask statement?

I've only been around since 2014, but it seems that the rejection of TA1 was a pretty significant shift in pilot/management relationships and mood. The consensus is that under the guise of "getting a deal done early" in 2015, the company was trying to rush through an inferior product. It was as if the company was "trying to pull a fast one" on us. We're still talking about it and many pilots have long memories.

I believe this was one of the biggest destructors of trust between this group and the company and was the beginning of the antagonistic back and forth we see today. I have many, many friends being hired in this cycle and I have to proactively apologize for the garbage they will experience and explain how just 6-7 years ago it was a much different mood around these parts. They are coming into a company with a vastly different level of morale than those of us did in 2014-2015.

UAL is firing on all cyclinders right now the way we were around 2014(at least from my vantage point. Could be different if you are there but from the outside it seems like they are coming out of COVID looking really good.)

A large significant part of this long term fraying is the shoot down of TA1.

It would be in the company and unions best interest not to send anything to the group that won't pass wholeheartedly.

The correct response to this lesson is to make sure the MEC doesn’t send us a sh!tsandwich to vote on. And on that note, I think they are doing great.

What makes you think we would have a deal done precovid had we taken TA1?