Well what did they think the pilot group was going to do when they went to batch size 100?

They could've been reasonable, but noooooo

"we didn't think they would do that..."

Just out of curiosity, does anybody have any theories (anecdotally based I'm sure) how what % of pilots just flies bid packet trips, as opposed to try to clear much of their schedule to fly OT?

Ill guess. I’d say it closely follows the % of commuters vs in base. And there is a sliding scale there…. As a commuter I generally fly bid package trips. That’s not to say I won’t swap to a better trip given the opportunity. But I want to know my work days, not play daily games trying to pick up.

I'd say it's well under 10% or less on the 717 who actually clear out their schedule and fly only/mostly broken trips. It trends more senior on the A side than the B side for whatever reason. You do basically have to live in base or have some sort of super easy commute with lots of flights because you're shut out of the last minute stuff, which also tends to be the easiest trips. If you do the rolling WS request game you're either going to get a ton of ARCOS calls every day or you're going to spend some time crafting specific PCS parameters each bid period.

I'd guess that roughly half of line holders do at least one trip swap for different bid packet trips per month. Some people can snipe a good swap out of a long crappy trip for an easy trip that reports second day before scheduling can manually cover it but you have to stalk OT right before each PCS run to try to grab that SWP.

It's totally anecdotal, and not 100% accurate, but generally I see the older CA's that I fly with just flying their bid packet trips while younger ones seem to be more willing to play the PCS hustle. Part of that is that the older pilots are normally more senior as well and get better trips from PBS anyways.

That's the use case for wildcard swaps.

I'd say 90% of pilots just fly their schedule and pick up extra time here or there. The clear your schedule and WS crew is just a small subset of pilots mostly in Atlanta that have decent seniority and schedule flexibility.

idk about that. In MSP B I see a lot of “credit surfing.” On the ER in NYC I was able to white slip trips to Italy. Here on the bus I can’t manage to get a deadhead to Florida and then fly back… goes to guys more senior than those being awarded Italy trips to begin with.. I get the whole junior base junior fleet concept. But. It’s not just an Atlanta phenomenon. Guys here drop their own low credit turn lines and play the game just as well and as often…

There are a handful of us who do that in my category, but I'd be surprised if it was close to 10%. It seems like most just fly their line and call it day. Frankly, I'd have to move seats if I had to fly a line of bid packet trips every month.


Good if you're trying to just get rid of a 5 day for something shorter. But could be a big gamble as some of the 0xxx trip can be complete crap.

Mostly in Atlanta. Credit surfing is possible in other bases but not as easy as ATL due to the shear volume of flights along with multiple cities within a short hop. Credit surfing is nearly impossible in NYC unless utilizing ample amounts of OOBWS.

From my experience, it's pretty low by seeing how many of my FOs stay on the trip from PBS award to flying.

First, by doing that you're pretty much putting yourself on short call reserve the entire month. I've got too many things to do with the family to do that. Second, in smaller categories there just isn't that much open time to work with. Third, in my category we don't do a lot of "last flight in, first flight out" from the base, so there isn't very little of that "fly to outstation and DH back" stuff that works so well in ATL on the NB that pays 10.5 for very little work.

In the end, I put my time into a excellent PBS bid and call it good.

I think it's higher than 10%. Lots of people will drop or swap trips just look at the first few runs on the 20th. I used to drop down to almost zero than surf open time to minimize my days on the road. Part of that was being chronically jr. for 20 years. Even now as a "senior" type I still do swaps as things can and do change.

The big difference is in base versus out of base. Living in base makes it very easy.

We need more bases. Virtual bases. Home bases. These big bases are a thing of the past with all the commuters we have.

“but that will steal flying from atlanta pilots”

I’d be curious how many less local ATL pilots we’d be stealing from since the VEOP.

Wouldn't that mean ATL trips would have more credit? That sounds like a win-win to me.

I hate to be the guy to point this out, but in my category I consistently see trips with the same handful of captains in open time. There's a good reason for that, and it's not because the FOs are dropping their schedules to surf open time.

i hate to be the guy to point this out, but you misread what they wrote. they implied most fos *stay* on the trip.

😂 Thanks for clarifying that. It does seem like the OP was throwing me under the bus!

It can be done without "putting yourself on SC," just plan on working the days you'd normally be gone for your normal trips. One you just know further out that you'll be gone for a majority of Tues-Thurs, while the other you can often just be gone a little bit of each of those days. Obviously it helps to be more senior, but it can be done even in categories of fewer than 200 and without just doing the last out/first in trips. Occasionally you may have to pick up a trip you'd prefer not to, but at least it's better than a bid packet trips.

I'd happily fly my bid schedule if they'd build trips worth flying. They finally built some this month, but of course everyone came out of the woodwork to bid them. Even a seat seniority in the teens, didn't get you a line of day trips. It sure is a good thing we don't have more of those one days, because noone one them... 🤣

They said they built more 1- and 2-day trips to make sure those flights operated as scheduled, as if they now realize that flights operated in the middle of a 4 or 5 day often do not. Maybe if this goes well (as it should…) they’ll build more of them. One can dream.

Anybody know the status of MEC 23-10 settlement?

The deadline for final implementation of the revised automation and proper execution of this provision is March 31, 2025. Should the revised automation not be implemented by March 31, 2025, then beginning on that date, pilots rerouted under Section 23 L. will be paid single pay and credit, plus single pay, no credit (in addition to any other form of pay) for all reroutes regardless of whether there was a break in duty. In short, there will be no 50% pay premium for reroutes—all reroutes will receive the 100% premium. This provision will remain in effect until the automation is implemented or June 2, 2025, whichever is earlier.



If such automation has not been implemented by June 2, 2025, then beginning on that date, pilots rerouted under PWA Section 23 L., will be paid single pay and credit, plus double pay, no credit (in addition to any other form of pay) until the automation is implemented.

The automation is incomplete and the company is not paying out.

so yet another grievance settlement ignored.


Next up: the swipe out sick settlement will soon be ignored…starting July 1.

Thats a great question! I just submitted a reroute pay grievance via crew assist and used the above math.

In that case, STS ticket submitted as well.

pay perspective memo came out on ...... squirrel!

Yup, they ****ed away my rrpy by any possible method of calculation. Not even IAW PWA, let alone the grievance.

The good news is that it seems ALPA is caught up on STS, which is impressive.

Sadly, the new version of MiCrew is out to small group testers currently, and will be out before the end of June. Seems to fix the swipe out sick issues

I hope it’s got at least one bug that falls through the cracks.

What was your turnaround time.

I sent a DART early last month after a reroute, and ALPA said the automation is complete and we are not due the extra RRPY.

I submitted one recently that was settled in under 2 hours

Reroute pay question:

My time card shows RRPY under trips with X amount of credit and I also show some hours in the REROUTE PAY column below. Will I get paid for both?

Me too..lol

I've got RRPY under trips and then the RRPY column still shows 0:00. How do we know it's being calculated correctly?

Different rules. RRPY is 23.L.4 and REROUTE PAY is 23.L.8/9.

I just submitted today, and it’s not been looked at yet, but the submission page said they were working tickets up to today’s date.

edit: also my trip was scheduled to end with a redeye deadhead getting in this morning, though I deviated to get back last night. But now that there is no ‘closed’ column, I expect pay to be settled as soon as I’m released. So I sent my crew assist pay issue in right away!

If only the MEC would communicate things like this.


Saide note, it appears fleets with different rates (320, 737, 220) are still getting incorrect RRPY. Check your checks!

The RRPY in trips is 23.L.4 pay. You should have some of this for any given reroute that pays.

The RRPY at the bottom of the time card under "REROUTE PAY" IS 23.L.8/9 PAY, aka 4 hours (or 25 hours international) after your original release. This is far less common.

If you have both on your time card, you're getting paid for both.

Also, you say you're getting RRPY coded as credit? It should be pay/no credit.

Appreciate the explanation. Most useful piece of pay related info I've learned in a while, thank you.