flying ops is a separately listed portion of the flight ops org chart. he seems to know the name.

The swiss cheese model in action... add another layer and you trap more errors complaints. They have taken a play from our health care insurer. Adding another filter and appeals process is effective in reducing information (and recovery) by a statistical value.

Deviate Deadhead ?
 

What happens if I deviate on my back end deadhead and made it home fine, but my scheduled deadhead cancelled. Am I out of luck for any additional pay?

yep. you don’t get reroute pay if you aren’t rerouted.

Thanks, that’s what I thought.

Easiest way to remember is the moment you deviate is when a "snapshot" is taken of the rotation. Anything that happens beyond that is no good and doesn't matter.

lats imagine a DH that releases in base at 8:30pm. It gets delayed 4 hours. New release 12:30 am with carve. You then deviate. Do you get the carve???

The bold is what is critical to the answer: Yes.

When you DV8, iCrew takes a snapshot of your schedule, and all pays are calculated based off that snapshot. If you DV8 before the 'delay', you get nothing.

That's how it's supposed to work. The schedule has been reverting to scheduled. I don't know if it's a systemic issue

Yes. Doesn’t seem right, does it? At least we keep the scheduled per diem now. Lol.

What isn't right about it?

It is. I’ve got a case at an impasse with company. Calling to DDH will cost you money if your DH is delayed into EDP/Carve/extra day, etc. The moment you DDH it everything snaps back to scheduled times and you lose the pay. No idea if we’ll ever get the company to pay on this issue.

That you lose money for deviating from trip. They should still have to get you back to base if you deviate and pay whatever it costs. Like shadow bidding. It should be a shadow trip once you deviate. Us deviating is beneficial to the company because we let them off the hook for getting us back.

What utter BS. The amount to goodwill this company will torch for a few shekels is truly astounding. I mean, how many people a year are in this position? A few dozen??

But since there is no cell on a spreadsheet for goodwill, they don’t know or care.

When they first allowed DH deviation you did not get paid for the DH leg if you deviated. You also lost additional pay with the duty and trip rigs. Western had a somewhat infamous pilot named Arle. Western paid for deviated legs. Post merger he flew a popular trip LAX-HNL-SAN deadhead back to LAX trip. In SAN he called crew scheduling and said, “This is Arle on rotation XXXX, I am sick! DH a reserve pilot down to SAN to DH home for me. I am going to wait and watch!” The policy changed shortly after.

Ya I had the same thing happen as Tennis. BS but at impasse.

This is exactly the problem when your CEO is a bean counter...and some random robot VP of Crew Resources (HT) with outsized influence is calling the shots.

what am I missing? Guys wanna get paid re-route pay when they literally get to go straight home and aren’t rerouted?

This is the type of thing that backfires every which way.

The company’s just gonna say screw it no more deviating. I don’t care how any of you try to spin it, deviation on deadhead is a benefit for pilots.

trying to get paid reroute pay because you’re originally scheduled deadhead canceled, etc. is an overreach.



jmho

Some guys want that but that's actually not the argument. The argument is, let's say you are supposed to DH back to base but your flight is delayed 6 hours. You deviate and take an offline JS or an earlier but not as delayed flight. Instead of taking a snapshot, as it should, it reverts back to the regular schedule without the delay that forced you to deviate in the first place.

Lol so is saying screw it and having non Delta pilots fly a 350 delivery, abusing 23M7, rejecting auto accepts, its not a violation until.... you get the picture. That said i don't disagree in the situation your posed, but Cbreezy hit the nail on the head in my situation.

Also can they just say no more deviating? Isn't that codified in the PWA?

it has always snaped back for me and then crew assist denies my claim saying its correct.

The problem is the PWA says “scheduled” … so the new system is programmed to revert to scheduled. No more snapshot…which supposedly wasn’t a PWA thing. But was a past precedent that is now gone.

That’s not happening. The company doesn’t let us deviate as some form of goodwill gesture. They process deviations because the PWA requires them to. The only deviation scenario in which they have any discretion whatsoever is for a RES pilot’s front-end DH.

Additionally, our rest and pay are based on us taking the scheduled DH. I don’t think it’s an overreach at all to apply all reroute and pay rules to the scheduled DH, especially if the changes occur before the pilot actually deviates.

Can the company use minutes under to comply with min layover times?

Yes if you let them. If you have a decent captain, he/she will make sure you get at least 10 hours behind the door. You can do it yourself too, but I believe most captains will take care of it for you.

ALPAs position is no. Company’s position is yes. My STS about it is at impasse.

Be that as it may…..it’s still not permitted, and is at impasse.

We’re starting Porto next spring. So we got that going for us. Which is nice.

What fleet?

JFK to Porto......767-300

BOS to both Madrid and Nice on 330-900

Rico??????

You're missing some math. For simplicity let's say 1 in 20 DHs (5%) get extra pay for unscheduled delays/EDP/RR/etc. So your average PWA-guaranteed DH pays 105% over the course of a career for someone who never deviates (Pilot A). Now lets say there is Pilot B who deviates every DH. Their deviated DHs have the same number of delays/cancellations/extra hotels, but they are never compensated for it. So they're being penalized 5% of PWA guaranteed pay, just for flying on other metal while experiencing the same number of delays and late arrivals home, and doing something that benefits the company.

Pilot B should not get less compensation than Pilot A over the course of a career for this.

Pilot B does have a choice! If a pilot is bought off a trip should he also get reroute, leg overage and other pay for the trip had he flown it?

Whatever happened to all the "this is the last summer of 767-300 international flying" I kept hearing?

Fixed it for you.

No, not the same thing.

After a DH gets delayed or re-routed, and the pay guarantee shows up on your time card, it's yours. If you deviate after that, that pay guarantee should be snap-shotted accordingly (but currently, it reverts back to as-scheduled).

Also, you cannot pickup any GS that conflicts with the original footprint of the trip, even if your deviated DH makes you now legal.

You can freely pickup anything over a bought-off trip with no restrictions, so the pilot isn't really handcuffed into being short-changed.

Deviating saves time. You choose your compensation either less time at work for the same money or more time at work for more money. You vote with your feet.

Gotta disagree here. That’s just the way the ball bounces. And that’s a terrible reason to justify not paying the DDH per the snapshot at time of deviation.

if i drop a trip with payback days that later reroutes, should i get reroute pay?

Or just walk away…. If you don’t need a pos space seat to find your way home…. Just leave.