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Originally Posted by Pony Express
(Post 3583292)
What was the insufficient fuel near diversion from years back and what was the crew experience levels?
I'm a civilian guy and disagree with the comparisons to b17/b29/b52 comparisons. Military and civilian flying are totally different worlds. I'm not posting details of that situation here. Suffice to say if you've flown the ER, you know how we get our eng out info for speed and alt. Thus the issue with the 2 inexperienced persons on the flight deck |
Originally Posted by marcal
(Post 3577274)
Our guys will do well no doubt.
A graduate of med school and a residency can also do open heart surgery. Doesn’t mean I want them doing that on me. Not because they can’t - they just haven’t seen as much as a Doc with more experience. I think this is the argument many here are trying to make. Many of our junior 767 CA awards have very substantial experience outside of DL, in many cases on the same or similar aircraft in many higher threat environments. As I said, they’ll be fine but even though they’ve passed all the tests, I prob don’t want someone straight out of residency performing major surgery on me. Honestly the hardest part will be managing the senior mamas. |
Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo
(Post 3583293)
Email safety
I'm not posting details of that situation here. Suffice to say if you've flown the ER, you know how we get our eng out info for speed and alt. Thus the issue with the 2 inexperienced persons on the flight deck |
Originally Posted by Apophenia
(Post 3577136)
There’s 23 year olds flying Eagles and Super Hornets with only a couple hundred hours of total time (basically none of which is PIC) under their belt. Nobody bats an eye.
I’m sure the 24 year-old RJ skipper who was doing 3-5 legs a day in and out of blizzards and thunderstorms in ORD, CLT, DEN and LGA can handle it. I was a tailhooker. Then went to VR in the Navy reserve and found out a few things. In VR we had all fleet communities in every VR squadron. From helo’s to hummers, Blue Angels and ski Hercs. What I found was that the tailhookers and helo’s were the most insulated of any community. When you’re a tactical pilot, you fly very canned routes and local ATC helps you considerably from radios to course rules. In VR as an instructor, it was hardest training a new tactical guy on all the normal ATC procedures that they aren’t used to doing on a regular basis. All aspects of this business have their place. And by now I’m sure I’m getting pounced on by some of you who can’t handle or grasp what I’m saying. But it’s true. On top of that, there are good mil guys, there are poor mil guys and the same for civilian guys. No shade towards RJ guys. RJ flying is tough, especially in the NE corridor. When I was furloughed from NWA and was at B6, I was an captain for years doing just that. Many legs a day in and out of the weather. It’s tough. But the international side of the fence isn’t easy all of the time. When it goes bad, it goes evil bad. Experience and maturity have saved thousands of lives over the years, due to the constant oversight of the old guard for years on end to the newer guys…. Right now that dynamic is being usurped by seniority. That worries me dearly… |
Originally Posted by marcal
(Post 3577274)
Our guys will do well no doubt.
A graduate of med school and a residency can also do open heart surgery. Doesn’t mean I want them doing that on me. Not because they can’t - they just haven’t seen as much as a Doc with more experience. I think this is the argument many here are trying to make. Many of our junior 767 CA awards have very substantial experience outside of DL, in many cases on the same or similar aircraft in many higher threat environments. As I said, they’ll be fine but even though they’ve passed all the tests, I prob don’t want someone straight out of residency performing major surgery on me. Honestly the hardest part will be managing the senior mamas. I think marcal is one of our LCAs 99% I agree with him except here. Min age for ATP is 23. Chances are these cargo heroes have maybe 2-4 years experience in fast big jets. No pax either. So that's 25-27ish Maybe they are in the reserves or guard. But at mid 20s they are newly minted ACs. Still much to learn. Yeah. I don't agree with marcal here and do agree with tailhookah Seasoning needs to happen. But ultimately it's the company here and our contract. For now both allow it. Let's hope we don't step in a steaming pile and end up hurting people, our airline and our profession. |
Originally Posted by Pony Express
(Post 3583297)
Will do. I'm new to the ER and only have heard rumors of that scenario.
I'm good friends with the cappy on that trip. He was on 2nd break BTW when it happened |
Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo
(Post 3583310)
Not a rumor
I'm good friends with the cappy on that trip. He was on 2nd break BTW when it happened |
Originally Posted by Pony Express
(Post 3583318)
I didnt mean to sound dismissive by calling it a rumor. I'm not a new ER CA, just curious about the story.
I'm pretty sure safety has the ASAP on that one It's a great lesson learned I know I learned from it Take care out there |
Originally Posted by Pony Express
(Post 3583318)
I didnt mean to sound dismissive by calling it a rumor. I'm not a new ER CA, just curious about the story.
Box indicated low fuel due to inaccurate info. 2 FO's diverted to etops alt while CA was on break. |
Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo
(Post 3583288)
You need to learn humility.
That's an issue. There is NO substitute for experience in our business |
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