Do you have a PWA reference? I'd just like to see it with my own eyes. Trust but verify... yada yada... arbitrator says... yada yada yada. Thanks.
This is all I've found and it applies to the private pilot insurance.

SECTION 25
MEDICAL, DENTAL, LIFE INSURANCE, AND OTHER BENEFITS
I. Accident Insurance for Private Flying

5. In addition to the regular policy exclusions, the following exclusions will also apply:
a. flying in an aircraft certified by the FAA as experimental, restricted, or limited, or prototype aircraft, or
b. waivered flying, crop dusting, stunt flying (other than legal aerobatic flying in an aircraft specifically approved by the FAA for such purposes and in an area and at an altitude approved by the FAA), test flying, flight instruction or while participating in speed and/or endurance contests.

PWA section 25.G.1.d

“The life insurance will provide for guaranteed insurability of all pilots on January 1, 2008 and all future pilots at date of hire and will contain no exclusions from coverage except for the exclusions in section 12.02 of the D&S plan.”

the D&S plan document section 12.02 says

“Person causing death of employee: if a person is convicted of, or pleads guilty to, voluntarily causing the death of, or conspiring to cause the death of, the employee that person shall not in any event be eligible to receive benefits under this plan. During any time the question of guilt or innocence is being determined, all benefits for that person shall be withheld.”

Thanks for pointing this out. This is NOT the life insurance policy, but is the "Accident Insurance for Private Flying."

Based on what you found, that particular add-on "Private Flying" insurance actually excludes more private flying (I.e. experimental, restricted, etc aircraft) than our boilerplate insurance policy (including the GVUL). I think I'm going to pass on the accident insurance. Even EAA (Experimental Aircraft Association) seems to have a better group policy than Delta's "Accident Insurance for Private Flying"

Yes, I switched to EAA when I bought an experimental. They are the Expeimental Aircraft Association.

What kind of plane do you own? Just curious.

Does this include offing yourself? Asking for a friend.

I’m not sure if you mean this light heartedly. If so, probably not the right topic… we loose too many every day.

If you are serious, reach out to counseling help. There are a lot of resources. I promise people care about you.

After all that, to answer to your question is no since the beneficiary can’t be the insured person. I lost a friend (DL FO) 2 years ago to suicide. His parents were the beneficiaries. They got the benefit, but they would much rather to have him still alive.

Sorry if I missed the answer to these questions that I have.

1. Do we have to go through a medical/underwriting process to get the GVUL?

2. I have the term life maxed out right now. I pay out of pocket to have more coverage on top of what is free from the company. Can I get covered to that same amount with the GVUL? Would that require underwriting if that option is available?

3. Is it possible to keep my full term plan and opt in to the GVUL too?

Thanks

1. No, unless you previoiusly reduced the level of coverage and are now raising it back up (which in your case is N/A).
2. The GVUL simply replaces all but $50k of your company paid policy. It has nothiing to do with, nor any overalp with, any 'extra' coverage you buy.
3. If you are talking about the company policy: No, it is one or the other. You can have GVUL and any optional/additional term if you so desire.

Check out the Engage Podcast episode DALPA put out. It's referenced in this thread, and is also available anywhere you get podcasts (Spotify, Pandora, Apple, etc).

Editorial comment: there is literally no downside to selecting GVUL for the company paid policy. None. And it will save you taxes on the lower imputed income. Just remember it's a 2-step process.

The second step happens after open enrollment though correct?

That's my understanding.

Step 1. Elect GVUL
Step 2. ????
Step 3. Profit


I believe step 2 is an email after open enrollment closes.

RV-6 and partners in a few other.

This is exactly what I did. Company 50K + GVUL + optional additional life up to the self insured max. (no physical)

Same I used GVUL and I also use the company optional life term (for now). I was interested in seeing if switching to GVUL would change the other additional term, but looks like no.

Anyone interested in building an RV should probably wait at this point, considering the issues ongoing at the moment.

Definately, that's why I bought instead of build. Buyer beware though. Aircraft construction shouldn't be a side hobby. A meticulous attention to detail is required. Get a thorough prebuy inspection by an A&P intimately familiar with the specific type of exerimental aircraft. Zenith, Rans, Kitfox and Sonex make great kits. I am waiting on the JSX-2T to get off the ground, probably do a factory assist build in OSH.

As I understand these things, your cash accumulation account is counted against the death payout. So if you have a $50,000 insurance policy, and $10,000 in the cash portion, that $10k counts as part of the $50K when your beneficiary gets paid. I would love to be told I am wrong on this.

I think this commercial said it best:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEiI5noBlOs

I don’t think there is any cash accrual from company paid premiums in the GVUL. Any money you put in that is extra is yours and does not count against the death benefit. The only positive to the investing option is the company paid premiums count towards the cost basis of your investment money.

Thanks. Do you know if the "investments" count toward the death benefit like a cash accrual would?

No the investment side is completely separate from the death benefit.

FWIW, that was my understanding as well.

How do we calculate how much those company paid premiums would be over a career?

I switched to GVUL and it said I’d get an email but no email almost a week later. Did I miss something or is that normal?

If I remember the podcast correctly, it said o/a 27 Nov, so Monday after Turkey Day.

Correct. There’s an announcement on Deltanet confirming the 27th

Just to make sure I don't accidently cancel the $1.1m insurance. If you are switching to GVUL, you're OE should show signing up for the $50k policy, and then no amount under the GVUL one? Assuming that might be an option during step 2, which I don't want to do there either, but just seemed slightly confusing to me.

thanks boys!

Yes.

Delta is still providing 50K of life insurance (the max I believe it can offer as a benefit without imputed income).

The GVUL policy is separate through MetLife. On the 27th, we will receive instructions on how to sign up for GVUL as well as the level of coverage you are requesting.

**If you fail to complete that second step of the GVUL, you WILL NOT lose your full 1.1M coverage.**

It will just revert back to the current plan and you’ll have to wait until next open enrollment.

Thanks. .

does anyone know if while on long term mil (read: I am paying the premiums) if those spreadsheets of coverage dalpa put out are premiums paid by pay period or month?

Seems like the biggest downside of the investment option is that there’s a 2.5% load up front. But wouldn’t your tax free withdrawls (up to the cost basis) more than make up for this and make it better than a taxable brokerage account? Full disclosure, I’m not great at Math.

worded another way, wouldn’t this be better than investing the same chunk of money in a normal taxable brokerage account?

Don't view it as an all or nothing vehicle. Diversify, diversify, diversify. Some in taxable, some in tax sheltered even of those earn a little less is a good thing. The hard part of the question to answer is how much the government is going to steal from you when you are "retired".

Diversification is great, as long as the vehicles/investments you are in are actually good. The GVUL at best provides minimal tax savings, likely actually provides a tax penalty, and charges a 2.5% fee.

No thanks. I’m happy to take the imputed income savings and invest elsewhere.

You nailed it. A small income tax deduction for a 2.5% fee on after tax investment that is subject to income tax is not appealing when the alternative is a no fee investment that is subject to capital gains tax. I think too many overlook the impact of income vs capital gains tax on the earnings. That doesn't even consider the GVUL investment performance relative to its mutual fund or ETF counterpart.

If you are investing purely for stable yield, the baseline of 4% interest with a 1.5% guarantee falls well below the 5% money market rates currently available. Even with the income tax savings, you end up ahead on the outside.

DYODD, YMMV
​​​​​​

I had MetLife run an illustration for me. If I put in $250 a month into the freedom 2050 fund (age 65 retirement) and no more, meaning let premiums pull from principal, at an assumed 7%ROI (after load) I'd have roughly $250K at retirement in the cash balance side. Right now it's about $9800/yr from 65-69 to keep the full GVUL value, remember is 2500x top CA rate. The rate goes up exponentially post 69. My $125/PP would fund me to 72-75 depending on market return and where pay rates go for the full face value. Now, if I took the difference in just imputed income, at age 38, and invested what I "don't pay" for imputed it came out to keeping full coverage until maybe 70 in this freedom fund (really just a 7% ROI post load). Used it just to try and find a middle ground on investment returns. There would still be an ability to pull a good chunk of change tax free at retirement and let the policy fail. Is it worth it? Ehh, haven't decided. Everyone's financial picture is different but the option exists where it COULD make sense. Someone retiring in the next few years would need roughly $50k to keep insurance from 65-70:years old. The $250k/-50y trend to $10k retiree life is separate so that still exists. Just depends on who or what depends on you at retirement vs what you assets already protect vs liability/legacy.

In my mind, for most pilots, I don't see a need for life insurance past retirement age. By the numbers I'd bet that most pilots will have enough money to be self-insured even before 65, but the value of the employer-provided insurance with just a reasonable tax bill makes it make sense for most people to keep the GVUL until retirement. But past that at $9800/year I don't see the value in keeping the GVUL past retirement if you are already a multi millionaire. I think if I ever did invest in this I'd want to take my own money out at retirement and invest it some other way as opposed to exhausting it to pay premiums on a life insurance product.

If post retirement life insurance is the objective, look into a 20 year level term policy. $1.2 million will be roughly $300/mo for a healthy 55 yo pilot. That keeps you covered until 75 AND provides additional coverage on top of the GVUL years.

glad to see others have the same thought process. By 55 I plan to be done needing term with my kids out of the house and college paid for and enough assets for my wife to be able to live the same lifestyle in perpetuity. For some, not the case. Had an illustration run for curioutisty, and running the math some taxes could be avoided, but capital gains in a brokerage, without a 2.5% load... I'll just say "ehh". I've made my decision at this point and will save on taxes either way.