Ok, I guess I had no idea where the goal posts started. That doesn't change the facts and the hope of penalty being more than it is.

Wait. You actually think the company will make schedules significantly better because they have to pay us a little bit more? Please tell me you don't think that is going to make a huge difference.

Hint: Don't spend that $207 you are getting for the scope grievance all in one place. It's the same thing.

The rotation construction committee played with the optimizer to come up with the numbers that made the optimizer want to build rotations we like.

So yes, I think they will affect what the optimizer does and the company loves using the optimizer. They aren't going to make crappy rotations just to spite us.

Have you done the math on the extended duty day pay? It can easily make a NB 3 day 15:45 trip pay 18-19 hours or a 21 hour 4 day pay 26-27 hours, with no additional work required over the way they currently build the trips. That's a good 12-20% more pay for the same rotation. For reserves, that pay goes on top of the guarantee. That's not including any sit pay, ADG pay or min day credit.

It doesn’t help QOL though because “pay no credit”. If it was used as credit we’d all be getting an extra 2-3 days off a month.

So you think "we got 'em" this time?

The point is that I don't think these pay 'penalties' are going to do very much to change the quality of the rotations, but time will tell. I will also be interested to see how many more pilots are required for short call as a result of the 18 hour long call.

No I don't think they will make crap rotations out of spite. I don't think they ever have. Like you said it is all about the optimizer. But they had their calculators and micrometers out taking into account all of the factors and new work rules and they will maximize the blood they get from the turnip. Will things get better? Sure. Will it be significantly better? We'll see. Are these pay 'penalties' the driving factor? I highly doubt it since the bankruptcy resets are now set in stone and they know they don't ever have to worry about those again.

welp, sounds like we shouldn’t have even spent time working on these penalties, since they’re irrelevant

Yeah, that's what I was saying. I think I even used the word irrelevant.

Here is what I find funny. The characters who whine about Delta squeezing all the credit/pay out of the trips are now claiming that Delta will suddenly stop trying to do just that just to spite the pilots.