I would like the batch sizes increased to allow getting through the ladder in a timely manner. Don’t have access to all the data to know what size that is.
Once this happens, there are no more batch size violations and no more 23M7 violations. This ‘should’ have the effect of fewer blanket WS and GS, which will allow getting trips assigned even quicker. This should allow a reduction in batch size while still getting trips assigned in a timely manner.

Alright, you’re hired! (To the company’s negotiating team.)

How does the company’s ability to staff trips more efficiently, all while paying out fewer payments to pilots, benefit the pilot group exactly?

I don’t understand how larger batch sizes causes fewer blanket slips. The easiest slip to enter into our archaic system is a blanket slip. Why would pilots start entering more nuanced slips, and why not leave one’s hat in the ring to potentially fly for premium pay or generate lucrative PB days? 2-day-prior coverage is only going to make accepting a green slip (with more notice) that much easier. And as long as coverage awards keep reaching almost all the way up the seniority list, flying green or IA on X days can be the only way (short of sick leave) pilots can get some weekends off.

If you’re trying to avoid getting into IAs via 23M7, ain’t no acceptable batch size going to help. Some of these things are happening 3 hours prior to report (did someone say short call?). All a massive batch is going to do is disturb dozens or hundreds of pilots for a trip they probably don’t want and probably couldn’t have if they wanted it.

Auto Accept
 

If batch sizes go away completely, I could imagine some pilots simply changing their PCS prefs to AUTO ACCEPT (without auto ACK). That basically in effect creates a batch size of 1. Congratulations, you just made the problem worse (they didn't think we would do that!?)

Instead of fixing the issue, we are creating another issue. We go from 1 extreme (no batch size limitations) to the other (very limited batch sizes) and then BACK to the original extreme. AYFKM?!?

my hope is that they don't go extreme one way or the other like they did when they made it 1 and 5. there needs to be major discussion and testing. maybe a test run of a few months even as a trial

Really glad you posted this as I was about to say something similar but didn’t know who to quote. If batch sizes get bigger (and I hope they don’t) I could see myself making heavy use of auto accept but am unsure of the internal mechanics so a few questions as I’ve never used it.

A: If I put in a slip as referenced above and am the senior person in the batch does ARCOS even run? Or will my phone just ring with the “press 1 to acknowledge” message?

2: If ARCOS does run does it wait the full 15 minutes even though it already knows the answer?

D: If all 15,000 of us put blanket slips in with auto accept on have we done an end run around the company and self-declared a batch size of one?

Omega: Does this strategery work? (If it does I’ll shut up and you guys can have unlimited batch sizes for all I care). I put in a slip like referenced above, block ARCOS and the ARCOS phone number and let the VRU break through “do not disturb”. The only reason my phone will ring and wake me up is because I have a green slip that is mine to say yea or nay to?

Without regard to the rest of your post, I don’t think this part is correct. The “award” call comes from ARCOS as well, not the VRU….

I'd prefer they fix it by more properly staffing (or scheduling) the airline rather than us fixing it for them so they can continue to run everything hot. We used to do just fine when they had schedulers actually call pilots one-by-one, mainly because we didn't have the ridiculous number of GS we see these days. Bigger batch sizes simply allow them to continue the status quo, or worse, encourages them to push it even more. I sincerely hope our union doesn't give up current batch sizes, unless we get a giant ask in return.

we also had a lot less pilots (at least 2 or 3000 less) and not as many had blanket GS in. I also don't recall there being so many categories with over 400 pilots. I believe ATL 7ERB was the biggest a few years back. There's many factors. you'll always have premium trips at any airline. We need a viable way to get those trips covered instead of it taking 30 hours to get to the bottom of the list on these huge categories with 600 pilots.

I used Auto Accept for a about month, it was wonderful.

My phone only went off when the GS was mine but it confused the schedulers to no end. I only used it for GS that were in base that I would likely take - I wasn't fishing. I think out of the 4 GS that I "got" but declined the ACK - they only handled one correctly. The other 3 times they put the trip on my line, even though I declined the ACK when I didn't want the GS. I waited a while, sometimes up to 2 hours before calling them to tell them I wasn't doing the GS. Each time they took it off, but it was clear that it wasn't a common occurrence.

You're omitting a critical part. When schedulers called us one-by-one, it was under a system where a GS was not a proffer, and if you answered the phone, as long as you were in position to legally fly the trip (i.e. hadn't consumed a beer recently, etc) you had to fly the trip. Pretty easy to cover when the scheduler was pretty much assured of finishing the trip coverage process if a pilot picked up the phone.

With ARCOS, we made GS proffers-only, which is something I really liked. As far as I am concerned (and I am sure that I am the minority here) the large batch sizes and possibly getting a phone call in the middle of the night for a trip you likely had no chance of getting was the reasonable tradeoff for making GS proffers through ARCOS. So many pilots have been hired since we went to ARCOS that they don't even know that we secured a contractual improvement merely as part of the ARCOS program itself! (but I don't blame them; no new hire should be expected to know or even care how things used to be, only how they are when they join the ranks). But if you don't like getting a call in the middle of the night, why not turn off your phone or silence it. Last time I checked, no one ever submitted a GS request under duress, so that's not too much to ask.

But we did have legit complaints with the large number of callouts for just a trip or two. Somehow, with non-seniority list JL at the helm--clueless--our negotiators negotiated not only batch size limitations but financial penalties to boot for the company violating the batch sizes. I'm guessing the company has buyers remorse on a massive scale. I've flown with many an FO who had a blanket GS in, with ZERO intent of flying one, just to get the batch size payout--that setup absolutely wouldn't have happened under the prior system.

The zero-risk current status quo encourages thousands of pilots to submit blanket GS requests while having zero intention of accepting or flying one--but it does slow down the process--a lot. To complain about the inevitable increase in RR and IAs (which is a company mess of their creation) seems a bit hypocritical to me.

We shouldn't give up the current negotiated language for free--not for a minute. I think we can all agree with that. I think that our MEC is fully aware that we can address some company needs re the batch size issue, and associated "side effects"--but securing permanent contractual improvements for us as part of that.

I hope you checked to make sure that you weren't missed for a different GS while the one you declined was still on your line! 23 Q 12 b.

I believe the 88 categories (especially ATL and NYC) were rather large as well. Agreed, we'll always have premium trips, but what we've seen over the last 5 or so years, is crazy and indicative of running an operation lean of peak. Junior WB Bs getting GS#2 and 3 was unheard of prior to rona. Unless we get something good in return that offset that, increasing batch size just encourages them to keep running this lean.



While the proffer is great, I was perfectly fine with the non-proffer setup. It's not like you had to answer the phone...get the voicemail and see if you want it. Even still, it wasn't that hard to take a quick peak (even easier now with micrew) and see what the trip is before picking up the phone. Not to mention, if it wasn't super short notice (even then, often times they gave you 5 minutes) because you had 10-15 minutes to respond.



I personally don't mind the calls in the middle of the night, my phone automatically goes to DND at night. I actually have it set to let ARCOS ring through. For me, this isn't about the midnight calls that I won't get, but more about fixing an issue they've caused with running us hot and building crap rotations. Fix that, and I'll be more apt to help out with batch sizes.



The company has to power to minimize that.



I find it hypocritical that they cry uncle and us 23.M.7, when they are doing it to themselves and/or have the power to fix it.



This is really my overall point. If they want batch sizes changed, we better get some solid, permanent contractual change items.

your argument seems focused on the fact that there are a lot of open time trips..not the coverage of them. that's a different argument. All i'm talking about is how these trips get covered. Yes, there are many factors affecting why there is so much more open time now, from the crappy trips nobody wants to fly, to the fatigue calls, to the lack of staffing. Those are relevant for why theres so much open time, but not for how they are covered. Would you agree that taking 30 hours to cover a trip in open time is excessive? That's low batch sizes. we could have a category of 1 million pilots and because they only call 1 or 5 per batch it still wouldn't get covered. see my point?

This is why I mentioned earlier that I could see a way to make batch sized tied to the size of the category, not a blanket change across all fleets. Still, we need to get solid, permanent gains in our PWA for this move. I see what you're saying, but I believe they're connected, I guess we're down to the chicken or the egg. Fix the operation so we're not seeing so many coverage events and you'll likely see a reduction in the coverage timeline as people realize the chance of a payday gets less and less. I see the current situation as a fee to the company for doing what they're doing.

it's possible to have all the above, it just takes some willpower from those in charge on both sides

I think this is a chicken egg argument. They have huge amounts of open time to cover and need/want pilots to fly extra to cover them. The current system to cover open time would work just fine if they didn’t have so much open time. Pilots would jump at the first chance for a green slip if they didn’t think there were a hundred other chances that they could pick and choose from later on. So trips would be covered in the first batch or two. So I think it is a legitimate and the best solution for us and the company to properly staff the airline so they don’t have so much open time. Thus batch sizes wouldn’t even be an issue.

I HATE this solution to tie batch size to category size. Just because I am in a large category I get punished? More calls for trips I won’t get. How is that fair? This is the company’s problem not the problem of pilots in large categories. See my post above about proper staffing.

Well the large categories are the ones getting most of the IA calls and 23M7 assignments. So maybe you’ll end up with less calls overall. Also, it sounds like part of the issue is many, many pilots with GS requests in with no intent to fly a trip. If you’re looking to actually fly the trip it now gets to you quicker.

you can't have it both ways..either you want GS and can deal with getting some phone calls, or you silence your phone and fly your schedule. as it is now, once you get G1 and go to the bottom you have less of a chance to get G2 because they can't wait around to get to you at the bottom of the list. as for proper staffing, we have been hiring a ton of pilots, so I dunno where you think they can magically make more appear? As said earlier we have like 3000 more pilots than we had 10 years ago. Big issue is the crappy optimized trips that cause sick and fatigue calls and don't allow any time in them in case there's weather or mtc issues and what not.

Fly a schedule that the number of pilots you have can support without breaking the contract?? You know Rules of the Road and all that.

Valid for validity.

Seriously! Knowing how many crews you need to operate X amount of flights reliably per month is not some closely guarded secret or something we're still 'trying to figure out' because we're a start-up.

you guys sound like you just started working here haha you know that isn't how we operate here...c'mon man

Ed is single-handedly trying to do that by alienating the majority of our customers and employees….well, except maybe FA’s. Its almost as if he despises customers as much as he does pilots.

I most certainly can. It’s called the status quo and current batch size limitations prevent frivolous phone calls. No change in batch sizes without a very large quid from the company.

Maybe not for the last few years, but prior to that I remember seeing very impressive operational reliability. I know some of that was 'manufactured' i.e. delay a flight 12 or more hours instead of canceling it so it didn't hurt the numbers, but overall things were much better.

maybe if you're in a category with like 50 pilots you can have it both ways with the batch size as it is. if you're like most of us it doesn't work. yeah i know not your problem.

yeah and what changed? It starts with Opti and ends in mizer.

Help me understand the difference in category size as it affects batch size preferences.

If I’m in a category with 400 pilots and there are 3 trips to cover, a batch size of 15 means I have a one in 5 chance of being the selected pilot for a green slip.

If I’m in a category of 100 pilots there and there are 3 trips to cover, a batch size of 15 means I have a one in 5 chance of being the selected pilot for a green slip.

Am I to understand that larger category pilots want more headfakes with the tradeoff that they get through the coverage process faster? Why isn’t anyone discouraged by the total response window going to 25 minutes from the historic 10? I’d rather shorten that myself than open myself to more headfakes.

It's like crack in the 80s or fentanyl today. They are so addicted to it that they can't imaging how to operate without it. The optimizer is no longer an addiction, its become the way of life. They literally can't operate or build trips without it.

Math is the issue..it's not your chances of the trip, it's the time it takes to get down the list. Once people that actually want to fly the trips get GS1, as the month goes on those people just fishing for 23M7 and batch violation money go to the top of the ARCOS list since they haven't take a GS yet. So as the month goes on it takes longer and longer to find a person that will actually fly the trip. I've been past 200 before on the callout list. It's impossible if you have a trip signing in lets say in 5 hours with a batch size of 5 to get through all that (that would get them to 100 on the list). And that's just GS. That doesn't account for WS and OOBWS.

Thanks for this explanation. I didn’t see it this way until you made it clear. So the real issue is GS#2 or 3 or … and later in the month. I see the problem now from your point of view. I am still not convinced we should solve this Company problem without a significant quid but I see the issue better.

Roger, thanks.

It's still not our problem. The company chose to optimize the rotations, they chose to let all of the experienced schedulers leave, they chose to not admit mistakes were made with manning in 2020 and they are continuing to not upgrade their technology. Schedulers still have to work in DOS, I really don't know how ARCOS is loaded for the calls but suspect it is not nearly a simple process. The company has still chosen to not staff the airline correctly and relies on premium pay to cover trips.

Did I leave out, the company still wants to violate the contract any way they can because - IROP. IROP is not a get out of jail free card, especially if it is self inflicted.

yeah GS1 is no issue (at least if you're senior enough). I suspect if we could look at the data you'd see RR and IA rise as the month goes on to cover trips at least on these massive NB fleets. Believe me, i'd definitely like to solve this issue and get something in return and that's what I have told my reps numerous times for years now.

We’ve hired 3000 pilots in the past 18 months but almost all NB FO categories are still negative reserve coverage…batch sizes aren’t the problem!

one of the issues with those numbers is the screwed up equation used to derive reserves required. it got all messed up during the covid times and after when we got all those premium trips. I thought they were addressing that also. and batch sizes are the problem when it comes to COVERING premium trips. It's not why the trips are created however-that's staffing, or fatiguing trips, or whatever you wanna blame it on

Equation be damned…this could have been a non event if network only built a schedule they could actually fly based on the number of pilots we actually have.

i agree, but we're talking about 2 different issues here. what you're bringing up is certainly a big issue, but has nothing to do with how trips are covered. i'm with you 100% on that being the reason so many trips are in open time, why our QOL sucks and we aren't able to drop trips and so forth.