Pay bump.
 

Any of our resident PWA nerds come up with a % of what the UAL inspired pay bump will be here at the Big D?

2%. Filler

Thanks, I didn’t have our PWA handy,

is this for all years of pay or just top pay?

sweeeeeeet

UA and DL will have identical pay. 1% higher than these tables.

https://i.ibb.co/q15xPLp/IMG-6865.jp...order="0"></a>

https://i.ibb.co/QpqbhPv/IMG-6864.jp...order="0"></a>

As a FYI, you can access Aerodocs through the Delta links section of MiCrew.

Negotiator Notepad 23-04 talks about how the me too clause works and shows an example of the math.

So can we use A380 rates? Highest rate right? 🤣 When does it take effect? If they get retro to 01/01/23, will our 2% be retro? I know these are silly questions, especially #1, I already know that answer, but seriously, if theirs is voted in and takes effect as of 01/01/23, ours should be retro too.

Though I see your logic I just have to say, let it go man. It’s over.

You said you know the answer, but for those that don’t, it’s the highest paying aircraft in service.

WRT to your other question check out PWA 3.B.5 note 2

The picture of the pay rates posted literally says Date Of Signing right on the top. So what makes you think they're effective as of 01/01/23? What makes you think we'd get retro based on the higher rates? They're in effect going forward from... Say it with me... Date Of Signing.

Trying to look smart…. End up looking like an idiot. Ours were all DOS too, with retro being separate. Two separate animals.

And I think his comment was in jest.

I don’t know whose contract you are looking at, but ours clearly shows “Effective January 1, 2023” above each pay table for 2023 rates.

DOS was March 2, 2023.

From what I’ve been able to gather, UA’s retro mirrors ours to the penny from 1/1/23 to DOS, and then increases by 1% on DOS.

Does anyone remember what kind of retro UA and AA were willing to accept prior to the DL deal?

So, to clarify:

1. Do UA's and DL's pay rates match to the penny in 2024, 2025, and 2026?
2. And, AFAIK, UA's contract provides pay rates through 2027 while DL does not have 2027 pay rates in their new PWA. Will or will not DL's pay rates match UA's in 2027?

Thanks!

I believe Delta’s pay rates will probably exceed United’s in 2027 when they get a new contract. Delta almost always negotiates industry leading pay rates.

I also think the 737 max-10 will pay 321neo/757 rates at Delta. United’s does not. Again, Delta will lead the way as usual.

Over/under on the 350-1000 getting "super premium widebody pay" and topping the current 350/330/765 rates if that rumor ever comes to fruition? Or....does it get dumped on as another 350 variant à la the 330-200/-300/-900?

I would assume it will pay WB pay. I’m not sure if we have an argument to require a new rate negotiation, since it just lists A350 on the pay scale, and does not specify -900

Id say if the -1000 gets flown at -900 rates, the 320 series should all be at Neo rates, or at least the 321ceos.

I’m gonna amend my answer a bit after reading section 3E and the definitions section. We should have a case to negotiate a new rate. Whether or not that rate is the same as the other WB rates is TBD.

Agree. Considering the A350-1000 didn’t even exist when the current A350 rate was negotiated, it’s fair to assume a new rate is required. But it wouldn’t shock me to find out this management team would ignore that blatant fact and make an arbitrator force their hand. After all, it’s not a violation till the arbitrator says so.

The pay tables make no mention of A350-900 or -1000. I can all but promise the company will say all variants will pay the listed rate until the next cycle. In the contract signed in 2016, the 321NEO was annotated at the bottom of the pay tables specfically saying its rates would be negotiated once on property. That kind of statement doesn exist in the current PWA for the -1000, unfortunately.

You may be right, but by that logic when our pay table said “737”, how did we ever get rates for other variants that hadn’t even been invented yet?

That Malone guy is the gift that keeps on giving.

It will pay the same.

Do we know this for sure? While we did give up "the hammer" clause in section 3, there's still a new pathway for pay rates for new variants (3.E.)

If new engines on an existing "make and model number" can drive that process (321NEO) it seems more than reasonable that a longer variant would as well.

Just because the scale says "350" doesn't mean it automatically covers any and all variants. What if they made a stretched 380 and called it the 350-2000 (or better yet, the A220-5000), would that be the magical loophole that sneaks it in under an existing column?

While that's not likely to happen and it'll be called an "A350" it will also get a different dash number (-1000) so how is that not going to be considered a new aircraft for pay purposes?

Or was there something pre-agreed upon with our "blended" WB rate that was already agreed upon for this specific, and larger, sub variant?

If not, it seems like the 3.E. clause would still apply. If not who not?

If it is applied, we could still choose to roll that pay bump proportionatly into the existing WB pay if we wanted to, which would mean "it pays the same" but there would still be captured value in that new model regardless.

No, 3.E would be triggered. It would simply result in the rate being the same as the rest of the WB pay band. I’m sure some will say that’s defeatest.

I agree...especially because of our newly minted pay-banding. (A 350 is a 350....which is a 330 which is a 767-400). However, that isn't to say that I won't be interested to see if any demand is made by the negotiators if/when the first -1000 is painted in Delta's livery. [Insert popcorn munching meme at that time].

Agree, it’ll probably be the same, if not it’ll defeat the reasoning for the pay banding. Now what we should do is set a new rate and then band the rest UP to it.

I have no idea what it will pay but I am positive about two things.

If it pays the standard WB rates the Pilots that fly it will scream like stuck pigs that they are getting royally screwed.

If it pays a super premium rate the other WB Pilots will scream like stuck pigs that they are getting royally screwed.

Merry Christmas you filthy animals! :D


Scoop

God this is the most true statement I've ever heard 😂

Dont forget the 3rd truism, whereby the 767 is “thrown under the bus”

I think it depends which is it - is this week a "767 is a widebody" week, or a "767 isn't a widebody" week, can't remember.

Or “Why don’t we get holiday pay for Presidents’ Day?!?!”

Yeah, but gotta admit there’s a double standard for holidays. We should get holiday pay on all the holidays where scheduling changes are restricted. They are either holidays requiring special treatment or they are not.

agree with this. Getting holiday pay in the contract was a good start. Now let’s align it with all APD holidays

Or how about an entire trip that touches the holiday pays 200%…

I can't believe LABOR day doesn't get holiday pay. What a slap in the face to the most important LABOR group at the company.

And the 717/220...



Agreed. Any day I can't move reserve days with proper coverage, should pay holiday pay. But I'm pretty happy with the start the union got with holiday pay. Something to build on next time. Ther hve been some pretty lucrative GS go out this Christmas. DH out late on Christmas eve and fly home early Christmas day....1 flying leg and 1.5 block for 31.5 hours of pay. Most years, I could have easily flown that and not even come close to interupting holiday plans.

yup, this 5:15 / holiday is not worth getting out of bed for..