So, you haven't answered the question. If there is money to be made in refining, and corporations are greedy, why haven't they built any new refineries in 50 years?

My peak gas comes after my second slice of meatloaf.

That’s like 3 questions. Obviously there was money in refining or else they never would have been built in the first place. Shell and Exxon didn’t build refineries out the kindness of their hearts in the first place.

But oil was really cheap then, it didn’t cut into their bottom line. Oil isn’t as cheap anymore. And like good capitalists, gotta turn a better profit then the previous quarter or the executives don’t get their bonus.

It’s another Ponzi scheme. Eventually producing crude won’t matter if we can’t turn it into something useful.

You seem to think greed is a four letter word. It’s not. Greed has its limits.

No refineries were built because the capex is very high, permit and building very timing consuming, and possibility of low return on capital due to politics very high. An investor could just their money in Apple and sleep well at night. Or Monster Beverage

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Ok, and?

God forbid states want clean air and water too.

All the same reasons that manufacturing left the US. It’s cheaper somewhere else where they pay their workers less with less benefits and regulations.

Of course we’re seeing why that’s a bad idea and not in the national self interest.

God forbid we stop there!

I want everybody to have a livable wage. I want everybody to have affordable housing. I want everybody to have free health care. I want everybody to have free college tuition. I want everybody to have a 4 day work week.

There are a lot of things that would be great for society/everybody to have.

But ........

Then the adult in the room asks, "What are the down stream effects likely to be?" and "How are you gonna pay for it?"...... and the answer from the masses is, "The government should pay for it".:confused:

What's funny is that if you replace 4 day with 5 day work week, this is exactly what the modern labor movement provided before state and national laws were gutted that ensured the near complete destruction of labor unions in this country. As to the morality of the items you listed, I think if you do a job for someone on a full-time basis, you should make a liveable wage and be able to afford safe housing. We are the richest nation on earth and yet we have a large percentage of Americans who routinely have to go into debt or not pay bills because of medical care. They are choosing life over paying bills. And if you have the skillset or intelligence and drive to attend an institution of higher learning, it is our country's and economy's best interest to ensure you can go while not being straddled with crushing debt.

It wasn’t so long ago that a high school diploma was unachievable by the masses. Education fuels the future and the technology that society will need.

Agree on all points. To add to them, I think the exponentially increasing transfer of wealth to the 10,000 or so richest people since the 80s is going to be societies eventual downfall. How that manifests itself is anyone’s guess. You can only squeeze so much production out of the average worker bee while cutting their ability to exist as a citizen before it becomes untenable.

American exceptionalism.

We should be able to start with clean air and water. Like that's pretty basic.

Sorry Exxon, can't dump your waste straight into the river. Shell, gonna have to put some scrubbers on your plants to keep particulates down.

It is the cost of doing business in the US. Unless you want to have the air quality of India and China...

At some point the adults have to stand up and say I want better things for my children and not pass down to them a giant mess.