Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo

Ted I usually agree with and like your posts here. However, this is way out there for you. The point is we negotiated for it in C19, which means we gave something up. Then DALPA (specifically DH) give that negotiated item back. HOw would you feel if it was something more apparent, like DH seating? Say he just decided to go back to the old way to resolve a grievance? It's no different here with the batch sizes.

Originally Posted by notEnuf

As for SK, my understanding is that the commitee is and has been overwhelmed by ACE and the commitee has little ability to function out side of auditing and that needed to change for the long term health of the commitee, which he is tasked with managing. That said, I think managements refusal to pay and schedule appropriately was intentional to force a settlement by making the situation unsustainable. These deliberate actions were entirely the company's doing.

Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo

Ted I usually agree with and like your posts here. However, this is way out there for you. The point is we negotiated for it in C19, which means we gave something up..

Originally Posted by notEnuf

Is it irony, or some other lingustic discription, that the Delta pension fund manager is being recognized for outstanding investment and fund management that has brought Delta pensions to fully funded? Not your pension of course. ALPA didn't cause your pension to fail but they did the best for you possible at the time. Know thy self, Know thy enemy.

Originally Posted by Gspeed

Im curious to know if retirement for you means yelling at clouds more, or less? Can’t believe you’d stay around any longer considering how bitter you are.

Originally Posted by Gspeed

The MEC Chair works directly for the MEC, which is comprised of the LEC reps. Having a MEC Chair elected by the pilot group creates the same train wreck system currently known as the APA.

Originally Posted by notEnuf

Is it irony, or some other lingustic discription, that the Delta pension fund manager is being recognized for outstanding investment and fund management that has brought Delta pensions to fully funded? Not your pension of course. ALPA didn't cause your pension to fail but they did the best for you possible at the time. Know thy self, Know thy enemy.

Originally Posted by TED74

I don't need a refresher, since I talked directly to my rep immediately when the agreement was released. I wasn't pleased one bit. And while I'm still not sure we made the right trade, or that such a significant departure from past practice should have gone to memrat, as an adult I understand there are difficult decisions to be made after a reading of the terrain we find ourselves in.

Your "bottom line" is nothing more than that - your personal bottom line, that leaves out a ton of the complexities that exist in real life and not here in make-stuff-up-or-ignore-facts-APC-land. You may have gotten "nothing of value", but that doesn't mean nothing of value was achieved. And when you leave out the details I now know you're aware of (if you indeed discussed this with several reps and have heard SK's perspective), you do actual harm to our Association. When you infer our MEC chair is in collusion with managment, you're an effective tool of management to destabilize our union and create division at the pleasure of management. I don't question your motives, but I think you and those who mislead as you do are ignorant to the damage you do with each of your posts.

Some facts you left out:
1. The data that everyone points to that would make a strong case during a 23M7 grievance doesn't actually exist. There was no proper or official tracking of 23M7 use and no database to mine other than a mess of ACE reports or other disjointed records of suspected violation based on incomplete information. Compiling what did exist would be a monumental effort that we aren't currently manned for. If I asked you what time you woke up every day for the last 120 days...yes, that data exists but it is not practical and perhaps impossible to ascertain it. The new agreement creates a mechanism that will enable tracking as we go forward, to actually hold company feet to the fire instead of just yelling about it.
2. A large number of pilots demanded the seniority abrogation stop. You personally may be happy that total company expenduiture was up over baseline, but if you're senior and you keep watching junior get IAs that should have been your GS, you have a legitmate gripe.
3. Many of us did not want batch sizes to grow, and certainly not grow significantly. However, I'm intelligent enough to understand the actual benefit to a large part of our seniority list that wanted the coverage ladder to move more quickly without violating seniority. So while the batch size growth works against my own needs, I am mature enough to acknowledge competing priorities within our seniority list and I don't turn everything that works in someone else's favor as a freebie to management or weakness of the MEC chair.
4. The negotiators notes that everyone said would make a strong case for misapplication of 23m7 didn't actually exist in the verbiage they were thought to exist. Taking everything to a grievance and arbitration left open the real possibility of a company win that would allow them to continue unmonitored, unrecorded and unencumbered 23M7 with excessive seniority abrogation. Waiting for a grievance to paly out would have meant extended operational chaos, continued seniority abrogation, and a lot of unknown as to the eventual end state of an arbitrated agreement. Many of us have seen the pennies on the dollar that eventually come out of even arbitrated wins, so we went for what could be achieved relatively quickly before what was likely to be (and has played out to be) and incredibly profitable holiday season.
4. SK has the best finger on the pulse of scheduling shenanigans and the REALITIES of how they operate, how we operate, how we could/can/can't hold the company's feet to the fire, and gave his best assessment to the MEC and to the MEC chair. They all then decided how to go forward. You can be disappointed in that process or in SK's assesment, but I personally trust it since I know he knows a heck of a lot more than me.
5. SK has to ensure his committe can function on a realistic timeline, but that's not for the purpose of his committe - it is to answer the demands of the association that we not wait months to resolve pay disputes. The weeks and months ahead will demonstrate whether the newly created avenues to resolve pay errors is actually effective, but leveraging company resources to break down the backlog sure sounds better to me than putting our own people on it.

Whoa - lots of words. Why? Beacuse all of this is far more complex than you either believe or mis-represent it to be.

Folks - you have every right to be fired up about whatever issue you care to. I just encourage you to have a discussion with your reps (face to face if that's possible) and make sure each of you actually hears the other. Make sure you're heard - but also listen. Then vote at every opportunity, and participate in DALPA activity in whatever way works for your situation. That's the only way we stay strong as a union, and the only way to effecitvely counter the greed and eploitation that will forever exist in our management team. Save your fires for them and resist the inertia toward circular firing squads.

Originally Posted by JamesBond

I remember hearing once upon a time that OUR pensions were funded at well over 100%. No danger whatsoever. Alpa and the company guys were running around high fiving each other.

Good times.