PB's Letter - DALPA? Anyone? Bueller?
 

So what now? It's been a month since the special MEC meeting in ATL on Oct 27-28. We are to be uncompensated pay auditors for the compnay now in addition to being pilots?


We are still not being paid correctly for work we've provided to the company - Darren. When are these "solutions" (other than telling us we have to provide free of charge pay auditing service to the company)? You said tehcnology advancements? Dude we are still using a DOS based program for the majority of our scheduling functions. Meanwhile while we are NOT being paid for our work performed, the company is taking advantage of that float and pumps up their numbers for the street so they appear more favorable. What IS the solution Darren? I've not been properly compensated for work done over 9 months ago. I guess when I do finally get paid, it will be at 2022 rates????

Also, why did the "Union Letter" thread get closed? The synergy between C44 and the 4th floor is highly suspect. I question DH's motives. Where is the action from DALPA??

I've wondered the same thing (assuming this is for BP's memo). Is there really nothing forthcoming? If so, that's beyond disappointing.

FREE BEER! Tomorrow!

TNSTAAFL

Since 2022 we have 38,100 (according to the ACE app) Ace reports filed. Also since 2022 we have 74k hours recovered. How much $$$ was involved here? How long did the company get the float on our unpaid wages for work we provided yet remained (intentionally) uncompensated? How much more unpaid wages are out there yet discovered? For mine, it was 2022. A GS (Int'l 6 day trip) that's some coin I didn't get paid. it was also paid at 2022 rates.

the lack of interest on this matter - at least here on APC - speaks volumes. Especially DH and his leadership. What are they (MEC) doing? What actions are being taken outside RLA and "educational videos"? At least from those crews I fly with, they are all concerned about this. Anecdotal yes, but I am curious, and concerned, about the apathy.

What did your reps say when you asked them about this?

HK has said before talking to reps is a waste of time. APC outrage is where it’s at.

Im not happy either. But I’ve talked my reps. There are irons on the fire. I hope they pan out, if not, you can bet I’ll be asking them on what’s the next step.

Did they give you a time frame for when these irons will be taken out of the fire and used? I think HK is somewhat correct here in that - meetings and emails and videos have gone out that amount to nothing over months. So calling my rep is going to fix this?

Everyone I talk to is concerned as well. My rep gave me an answer to my concerns alluding to a multipronged approach that will roll out in the coming weeks. I'll see what it is and judge from there. So far, not impressed with the messaging. I asked my kid whether DH's video looked like he was pretending to be angry or really angry and she said he's not pretending, so he's got that going for him. I'm less convinced.

Exactly this.

OK sure but didn’t we hear this months ago or at least a month ago? So “coming weeks” is how long? So far the roll out has seemed worse than milquetoast.

I don't know if DALPA has ever (in recent history) had to deal with the kind of contract violations we are seeing. I’m sure a real response take time to formulate. We shall see. If not, time for a changing of the guard.

I’m rapidly reaching the point where I would vote against anyone who voted for DH.

I'm wondering at what point these contract violations (if they really meet that threshold) would be considered an illegal job action by the company - if not individually, then cumulatively.

doubtful. The law is incredibly on their side. The threshold for a job action by labor is pretty freaking low while that of the company is pretty high. There is an engage podcast on the subject

labor is held to the standard that any change in behavior regardless of organization or reason constitutes a job action while companies are only considered in violation if you can prove they were intentionally doing it to influence labor negotiations. (Innocent until proven guilty for companies; guilty regardless of innocence for labor)

(Thanks to president set by pro business judges appointed by politicians)

If you're going to toss the MEC reps, toss them all.

I don’t feel like those who have consistently voted against the direction we have been headed deserve to get tossed with those who did. I wouldn’t vote for all 8 of the dissenters, but at this point I would not vote for any of the 9 unless things change rapidly. And that’s coming from someone who voted against the recall of MC in 66.

Or
“don’t toss the baby out with the bath water”

I don't think "rewarding" those who have voted no for everything, including a very popular TA and LOAs is the right move either.

It was time for a changing of the guard six months ago. The batch size settlement laid the foundation for everything we are seeing today. The current MEC will never be respected nor taken seriously by management.

Measuring apathy by the activity of a handful of posters in an Internet forum sure seems like a strange concern to have - particularly when the actual coworkers you have real conversations with share your concern.

My hunch is that most folks recognize a digital yelling at clouds on APC is pretty worthless, and a lack of a chorus following your lead here is IMHO meaningless.

I agree. Like I said I probably would not vote for a few of the 8 (BK comes to mind) but if the “soft” response by DH is what we are upset by, those that put him there need to be held accountable.

agreed. We screwed that up big time and it seems like flight ops has been in “press to test” mode since without any noticeable pushback by ALPA.

I understand your sentiment, but normally there IS discussion, complaining, brainstorming, and "outrage" over these topics on APC. It has been quiet and that is unusual. Hell, complaining and outrage have had threads hundreds of posts long over topics much less important than this one.

I find your comment a contradiction. We've gone from batch sizes to this . APC is fairly representative of the group - just look at polling for the TAs as an example.

I find it hard to believe that something so egregious as what is occuring is not blood in the water here. Yes, I do find it rather odd and I am curious about why.

Probably akin to a frog hopping out of boiling water, vs boiling to death in a long slow rise.

It’s not like any of this stuff hasn’t been going on for years, We were generally a jaded group already. So when it got precipitously worse in the last 8 months of the new contract, it didn’t surprise many of us.

Not defending anything, just trying to answer the valid question.

also, apc is just a playground for bullsh1t. Most folks come here to poke other people or grandstand for endorphins (Myself included). When “real” stuff is happening that is out of our control, people that have been around awhile tend to lock it up, because actually worrying about stuff you cant change is a waste of “real” time. Just like with actual politics, use your vote, and then go drink a beer and watch the sunset for one more day before you bite the bullet.

not getting paid is ridiculous, nothing i can do about it rn.

I think people have talked about the impact of this letter, maybe not on this thread, but if you're reading, it's there. We could take cues from other forums and just repeat the same saying 10,000 on pretty much every thread that pops up, that seems to get things done. LOL.

I disagree, our TA threads have gone on for miles and miles. I don't do FB or any other social, so other than our cockpit talks going acrocss the NATs, this is the only other place I have to gauge the temperature of the water on certain issues. Especialy those where our management is being openly hostile toward us. Even during furlough it wasn't this caustic. Something changed, I don't know what.

To add, there's more energy directed at Miatas and chickens than something as serious as this. Troubling for sure.

So you guys are fine with not getting paid, violations of the PWA (PS after reroute, scope etc) and a union basically sitting back and letting it happen? Our MEC Chair gave away something we spent negotiationg capital on - for nothing in return!

I called my captain rep. What I heard is basically DALPA is going to do F-all of nothing. Really. That's what our 15 minute convo boiled down to. I was speechless at the end. The apathy I see is troubling. Its like almost overnight the collective pilot group is aflicted with Stockholm Syndrome. What is the answer, collectively to the open hostitlity being demonstrated on multiple levels from our management? Sit back, wait?

Who said I was OK with that, I certainly didn't. But railing on this forum isn't going to fix anything. I too reached out to my reps and he gave me a "it's in the works." I asked for a timeline in which he was a bit vague. I also conveyed that I thought our leadership wasn't being aggresive enough and that we had better see something soon, as I've seen even people who generally drink the koolaid, turning over this e-mail. I was assured that "something is in the works," we'll see if that comes to fruition any time soon. If it doesn't it may be time for a change of leadership. But just becuase they're not on here repeating the same cry over and over again, doesn't meant every is just accepting it.

you are not the target audience of my comment. I would never expect someone of your maturity to understand

What do you have against chickens?

While I agree, ATL is a little too cozy sometimes, DH is from 20, not 44.

I’m a firm believer that ALPA bylaws should be rewritten to require that the MEC Chairman be elected by direct membership vote. DH has demonstrated the true unilateral power of the position — not only in terms of setting the tone, but also in terms of informally negotiating with management through the grievance settlement process. The old ALPA argument that the MEC Chairman is nothing more than a figurehead simply falls flat.

There is no chance whatsoever that DH would have been elected by this pilot group.

I disagree. His actions were approved of by a majority of ALPA reps. We don't need a MEC chairman acting against the other elected representatives. A more effective change would be to mandate live streaming and electronically archived MEC/LEC meetings so pilots can participate virtually. A 5 paragraph email from some random pilot amongst 16k pilots isn't nearly adequate to elect a "union president." I am much more comfortable with the LEC reps, the ones who deal with the individuals on a frequent basis, determining the suitability of someone to manage a pretty extensive committee structure and budget

That hasn’t worked for APA.

I’m not. It promotes the culture of cronyism that has led to the type of ineffective leadership we see today. I would much rather see an outsider with broad pilot group support work his/her way in, over another insider who becomes chairman simply by having the right friends among a very small group of people.

DH was one of the least-favored candidates across the overall pilot group when the MEC elected him. There is something fundamentally wrong with that.

right, the guy who voted against the popular 20-04, and against the contract that was voted for overwhelmingly is the guy with his finger on the pulse of the pilots.

FIFY…filler

Out of all of the issues that APA has, this isn’t one of them.

What does that have to do with anything? I voted the way that I did based on personal convictions, as did everyone else here. Nobody casts a vote based on which way they believe the rest of the pilot group is going to vote. I knew that both would pass.

If your belief is that the pilot group would elect DH, then why be fearful of sending the chair position to a membership-wide vote?

A unitary executive is accountable to no one. What's the point of even having a LEC at that point?

DH was one of the least favored candidates? Maybe. But we found out how petty and immature his only real competition was. The epic tantrum he threw when he didn't win was absolutely embarrassing. Maybe the majority saw his behavior and didn't want a loose cannon behind the wheel?

The MEC chairman is still accountable to the LECs and, believe it or not, is still accountable to the pilots. There have been successful recall efforts in the past and unsuccessful, yet very well attended recall meetings. The MEC could then recall and oust anyone they please. Or, in the case of RS, not be reelected..