Ouch, yeah that’s a good call. No special status for a failed jump seat attempt I guess?

Just positive space on your backup.

Also payload optimized a bunch, and you can't be saved by the JS because of the 4 man crew you mentioned.

Yeah maybe wait until the 350-1000 comes and starts on that route and see if flights are still PO'd. If they aren't then that would make it a bit more of a feasible commute.

listing for the FA jumpseat should be the easy fix to be protected from 4 man PO flights

Great idea. And if it’s PO, certainly there’s open seats somewhere after the door closes.

the risk is that if it isn’t PO, you’ll be sitting in that JS for 14 hours

Who told their spouse they could live anywhere?

Every single international flight is all S2’s. All routes. Nothing special about Australia.

Are pilots protected from PO in the FA JS?

I thought it was pilots protected in cockpit JS (only), and FAs (only) protected in the FA JS?

If true, how would a retiree get on board?

neodd—sent you a DM

I did this for about a year and a half. I stopped because it was having a seriously negative impact on my physical and mental health and well being. Here are my takeaways to add to this interesting and sometime not so interesting discussion:

1) I lived in the south of Germany and commuted in to the mountain west. Very senior and easily getting exact early morning schedule I wanted with bunched upped trips. Still a good commute was 23-27 hours and that wrecked me.

2) I worked early morning and would go to sleep at 5pm to stay on Europe time. My body knew especially in summer when it was bright outside until 9pm. I was even more wrecked when I got home due to the lack of quality sleep.

3) Commute was never easy. Sometimes it was simple but regardless of jump seat option, which I didn't have, that length of time sitting in anything short of a lie down suite is just brutal. Add in delays which were common, bad weather, schedule interruptions etc and it was, as I say, never easy.

4) I would lose a full day going home leaving at 5-9pm and arriving the next afternoon. One full day lost going to work leaving at 5am and arriving at 3-6pm. So 2 days gone on my commute.

5) I could have made it easier by living in Amsterdam or London and commuting to DTW, ORD, NYC or the like. My commute was from the western US to any gateway, followed by a ZED to BSL and the a train home. Very long and complex. But I couldn't convince my wife to become Dutch.

6) Aside from the ra ra posted about 'Merica love it or leave it, living abroad was amazing and I'd do it again in a second for a variety of reasons that make life there far superior in many ways to what I have here. But not at the expense of my health. And my wife and kids quickly realized that I was a ghost in their lives.

7) Another poster described beautifully about the tax ramifications so I wont. I'll only add that I'd do what he did if I had to do over. Divest of all US assets (which is really difficult and super expensive if you already have some decent assets here. I kept a home in the US and maintained residency in Germany and 6 years after moving back I'm still dealing with tax issues.

Overall I'm glad I did it but I wont do it again. When I retire I'll probably buy a cool RV and leave it at my BIL's house. I'll spend 2-3 months in Europe and keep my assets here. Of course I continue to watch where the wind is blowing and if continues to look more and more like Germany in 1934, I'll retire early and jump. (cue predictable backlash)

Good luck.

I think we are already up to Germany in 1936!

Seems like the best way to do an international commute is to go reserve and bid your 16 day blocks back to back, and try to max out your 100 in 30 as soon as possible. You could get a small condo or apartment in base if needed. Then you'd be off for a month or so and only need to commute once a month.

Ooh that's a good idea. Bid a line, fly a bunch at the end of the month, then hit the limit going into a reserve month. Could work.

I’m highly tempted myself, but would be Gold Coast or Sunshine Coast. At HAL we have a few that commute to SYD. I should probably look closer at the tax implications.

Thanks for this. Very helpful. If anything, I'd have a crashpad or apartment. No other assets. I'd just assume the taxes would be a huge PITA.

Wasn't planning to start an int'l commute to Europe, and after reading this I'm doubly not, BUT that was a super interesting read and cool that you did it for a little bit even if it was havoc on your body.

Knew a couple pilots at my previous ACMI that commuted from Europe (one was Norway to ANC :eek:) but at an ACMI you could sometimes pick up a trip that started in Europe and skip the DHD and chop a day or two off your trip.

In college, I used to drink a pot of coffee for cramming sessions then sleep like a baby when I felt like it.

As I aged, things like light sensitivity, noise, room temperature, and circadian rhythms, caffeine sensitivity, etc. became increasingly important.

Everyone is different. But it's something to consider before you "lock in" to a multi-time zone commute for overseas travel. You will age, after all.

The "wearables" that are available are pretty eye opening just for DOMESTIC overnights, much less international stuff.

everyone is different, but the physical toll that a SYD to LAX commute would take should not be downplayed.

You won’t find a study anywhere that would find a commute like that to be anything but detrimental to one’s health.

The same could be said for this entire career even if you live in base.

UPS guy here. When I lived abroad my federal withholdings, benefits, and retirement were all deducted as if I’d still lived in the states. UPS wouldn’t allow a foreign address for HR purposes so I kept a U.S. one though I was a full on resident where I lived.

Taxes are what ultimately got us to move back. The country I lived in would deduct what I paid to US from what my total obligation there was. So not double taxed but earning income in 1 country, as essentially an hourly employee, but residing in another meant zero tax sheltering/deductions. We also paid for (read: taxed) social benefits that we were largely exempted from as we made too high of an income.

Retirement accounts had to stay in the U.S. as that’s where the plan and banks were for it and this was allowed for by the other country’s tax law. That setup would end the day I retire at which point the accounts would have to be closed and reopened in that country under comparable programs. Prob there is: expatriate $$ tax, import $$ tax and exchange rate factors.

On exchange rates: we’d get paid into our U.S. bank accounts then have to transfer most of that $$ to our international accounts. We found a bank that operated in both countries and had a bridge account that facilitated transfer relatively easily but it was still a pain. Exchange rates can be your friend or worst enemy too. Big factor to consider imho. I used my U.S. credit cards for as much as I could and paid those from my U.S. bank acct - made life much easier.

Other arse pain were getting things like mortgages - you have no credit overseas so often requires much higher down payments, attestations from US translated and required to be notarized (not cheap like us), school curriculums, and health care factors. Drivers licensing can be a major pain in certain countries as well and since you have no drivers history over there, insurance is much higher.

Commute was relatively easy for me but that’s one advantage of ups. Really easy from Europe or Asia and we have a number of guys that do it from both but our network is totally different so a bit of apples to oranges

Def get tax advice from an agency that specializes in Crossborder taxes, there’s not that many and few will understand the idiosyncrasies of airline pilots. And know that you won’t have a complete picture of the financial aspects until you are living it. Lots of little nuances that come up out of nowhere. With SYD, maybe better to do an extended stay (6mos) to avoid all of the above for the most part.

Like someone posted above, I’d do it again in a second, if I could, the practicality just isn’t there. We are looking at doing 3 months per year in different places then maybe 6 mos in us and 6 mos abroad once kids are out of the house.

PM me if you have any other questions. Good luck!!

My biggest question is how to get a residence permit for Amsterdam without being a citizen, or is there a way around that?

Only way I know is what I did in Germany which is you marry a citizen. If you have a parent or grandparent from there, I believe you can get a passport then you can get residence after you move.

I don't know specifically about The Netherlands, but I think a "Digital Nomad" is the closest thing to search for. It's a thing where people who work remotely live in other countries (usually inexpensive ones) for long periods of time. Some countries have a specific visa for it, others it's more vague. But as we earn a fair amount of income, and can live anywhere.. that might be the option you're looking for. Usually countries are making sure you're not going to be drain on their resources.

Here's a guide to it: https://immigration-netherlands.com/...al-nomad-visa/
It's not an official site, but lots of info.

Hate to hijack, but is anyone currently living in England? My niece is considering a move there in January.

Those who know, know.

"If the young only knew. If the old only could."

This post reminds me of this.
https://youtube.com/shorts/l0pXBXkOQ...jJmIE322_kHDF4

You can’t move there anymore than people
can move and live here. You can visit, you can stay for extended periods of time and there are tricks for maximizing this, but getting the equivalent of a green card will require that you qualify under those conditions. Highly doubtful you’ll be able to get a remote worker visa but I’d still look into it and imagine you’d be subject to local taxes if you could

Marriage to a citizen in Europe will let you live there but that’s it. Basically have to go through the same process as US with a permanently residency permit, x # of years living there, THEN the citizenship process. And in the EU, it’s a royal pain. Some countries like Ireland and Finland have some lineage loopholes that simplify the process worth exploring.

Can your spouse land a job, any job over there, like working at an American school? Civilian gig at one of the military bases? Best option for long term - spouse lives and works there while you “visit often.” This keeps your income sheltered from EU taxes.

Certain countries in SE Asia are much more welcoming of you want to go that route.

Everyone thinks they’ve figured out the latest tax dodge.

Jails and bankruptcy courts are full of people who thought the same.

The Netherlands is quite doable for the entrepreneurial types, provided one is willing to start a business there (not for everyone certainly), referring to the Dutch American Friendship Treaty (DAFT) from post WWII. But where there’s a will, there’s a way. include a valid U.S. passport, registration of a Dutch company, and a minimum investment of €4,500 into a Dutch business bank account. This treaty provides a streamlined, less bureaucratic pathway to Dutch residency compared to other self-employment permits, which often require proving "added value" to the Dutch economy

The Dutch American Friendship Treaty (DAFT) allows U.S. citizens to establish a business and obtain a Dutch residence permit, facilitating entrepreneurial work in the Netherlands and across Europe. Key requirements include a valid U.S. passport, registration of a Dutch company, and a minimum investment of €4,500 into a Dutch business bank account. This treaty provides a streamlined, less bureaucratic pathway to Dutch residency compared to other self-employment permits, which often require proving "added value" to the Dutch economy

For taxes, there are certainly smarter folks than me on this (so take with a grain of salt). I’ve done some research on this recently since my wife is also interested in some time abroad and we’re exploring options.

Many countries have a tax treaty with the US to prevent double taxation. That said, the US will still require you file US taxes; you’d pay the taxes in the country you’re living (with few exceptions, unless you’re considering certain central American or Caribbean countries that only tax local income).

For Just about every country in Europe (Western Europe at least) you’d be filing and paying their taxes, then claiming those paid taxes as a credit on your US taxes. So you shouldn’t necessarily be taxed double, but your taxes could increase because those tax rates are higher than here. Example: if you move to France and pay their 55% taxes, you can offset your US taxes and basically reduce them to zero, but you’re still paying more overall because France’s taxes are higher than here.

If you want to see some nice breakdowns by country, check out the Nomad Capitalist. Granted, it sounds like you have a specific place in mind, but that website has some good info.

definitely consult with someone who specializes in your situation though.

^^THIS^^ Absolutely this. I would NEVER EVER agree to this w my significant other.

UNLESS she's the breadwinner of the family you must grow some balls and tell her NO! This is YOUR career, and to boot, you are risking fatigue every time you start a trip.

All that for WHAT? Not only no, but HELL NO

Damn straight. Who needs a relationship of co-equals making decisions and sacrifices as a family? Get back in the kitchen where you belong, amirite?!

Commuting 14 hours---possibly in middle seat economy, during one's WOCL......are you kidding me?? For what??

A transcon commute....OK fine. Not great but I could make it work, at least for a while. From Australia though??......YGBKM. HELL NO to that.

Oh.....and God forbid you bend metal....or worse. How's that 14 hr commute gonna look to the company, FAA and NTSB during the accident investigation?? All so your wife can live somewhere she doesn't have to. C'mon

You have no idea what the circumstance is but your continued insisting that it's all the wife's fault is quite telling.

What you will be missing is your life. What you describe is a lower level in hell.

Man we are spoiled and judgemental. That commute with appropriate rest and a 2 week stretch on the schedule could be great. Have you seen ACMI schedules? A month at a time with rest and DHs on the fly, never planned in advance. If it doesn't work for you that doesn't mean it won't work for someone else.