Commuting from overseas, anyone done this?
 

The family is considering moving. One of the options on the table is another country (wife originally from there and has family there). We are still just brain storming but I’m trying to gauge how feasible it actually would be to have an international commute.

Flight options are quite limited so that obviously would cause a lot of pain and hotels (ocean crossing). But beyond that, is anyone currently doing this or has done it in the past that would share some things we may be overlooking? Taxes? Company policy on the matter that I haven’t found? Guess I’d need to keep a U.S. address somewhere and probably an international calling plan with a U.S. phone number. What else am I missing? One thing I just thought of is 100/672 block hour limit will likely restrict against clumping too much flying together to reduce commutes.

Without specifying the country or city it’s hard to answer. I know a bunch of pilots who commute from Europe and make it work without too much hassle. Usually involves clumping flying together into two week blocks.

Ironically, I’m from Canada and considered moving back briefly (Nova Scotia), but despite being 500 miles from NYC as the crow flies it would be a nightmarish commute. 1-2 flights a day in the winter direct to the US total. No Jumpseat allowed because it’s international. Dash-8 always payload optimized. Almost always full loads. Would have been connecting through Toronto almost every time on the notoriously unreliable AC. Last time I was up there I talked to another pilot commuting from Halifax to HOUSTON for commutair. Likely world’s worst commute. (Our YHZ-EWR flight cancelled because of weather, and we both ended up getting to Toronto after being bumped twice more)

So, again, the distance doesn’t matter nearly as much as a bunch of other factors.

thank you for listening to my idle Friday morning musing.

Yeah I think I'd definitely need to do a few months of research on flight loads and such. International jumpseat is fine on Delta flights, right? Just no-go on other carriers?

You can’t be bumped for payload optimization on a DL JS, but I do believe you will eventually run into issues if there is OE taking place on the flight. I think in that instance the JS won’t be available and you’d need a seat in the cabin.

I'd definitely nail down the tax ramifications, lot's of potential issues.

- Some US states consider you to be "anchored" in their state if that was your last residence prior to going overseas. When you leave the US, you still owe them income tax indefinitely. Workaround is change legal residence to a more reasonable state before going. Probably want to fully comply with whatever applicable rules, because they might check... some states including mine take it very personally when high-earners take their hard-earned money elsewhere. ESPECIALLY if you're still domiciled in that state and they see all your income.

- I think you still have to pay federal income tax, since your income will be US-based, not foreign like typical expats who work overseas.

- You might get double taxed by your country of residence.

Things to consider, I'm sure there are more (talk to a professional).

Not all wide body captains are cool with a jumpseater on long flights. Another thing to consider.

(I don’t know why. Don’t shoot the messenger)

Then they can enjoy dealing with the CPO / pro stans after refusing a Delta pilot who meets all jumpseat requirements for no particular reason. The CPO will be especially thrilled after the company has to give the pilot international PS on a backup flight (likely saving the commuter int’l taxes).

The FOM no longer gives captains free rein to deny the jumpseat without cause, if all other requirements are satisfied.

International captains think they are better than everyone else?! This is my shocked face

Crossing the pond is serious stuff! Only the best of the best can make it happen.

Getting divorced and remarried sounds better to me than this. I’ll never understand why even work here if you don’t want to live in our great country. I commute from Florida and that sucks. Can’t even imagine moving overseas.

Oh boy. We already went down this road when I said a captain can’t force another company pilot into the flight attendanr jumpseat. The ego captains came out in full force telling me they could and would.

Yeah, it's not ideal. It's an amazing job when living in base. But compared to doing another job, even with commuting or commuting long distance, this still wins.

Yeah, I think the tax ramifications will be complicated for sure.

Every one you meet is fighting a battle you know nothing about. Not every Delta pilot is from the US, or has his aging family in the US.

Why do you commute?

Not on ULH…you can’t book the jumpseat. You can jumpseat on Air Canada but only in the cabin. Foreign carriers don’t do the jumpseat thing.

You can’t get any useful information if you don’t name the county/city. Vancouver BC is a complete contrast to Warsaw Poland. It’s like the difference between night and day.

If your considering Australia, send me a PM.

A matter of opinion…the very last place I would live is Florida. I’m not wrong or right.

Do you know how much pilots make outside of the US?

I only know a couple of people that did it but they kept a house in their domicile. That way they would always have a place to stay when they had back to back to back rotations and didn't have to worry about hotels or crash pads. Probably some tax/residency angles to that as well but I'm not sure.

I've known a few people over the years try this. If you are someone who doesn't really care about work, and are good getting what you get without trying to work the system for max pay, you can probably make it work OK. This works if your spouse has a really good deal. If you need to maximize your pay, you're probably going to wind up unhappy. One guy I knew had secure finances outside this job and was happy staying senior on low paying equipment to make his commute less hassle. He did that for years and sat number one in pretty much the bottom category until he could be number one in the next category and so on.

You're going to need some seniority to stack up a manageable commute, otherwise you'll be on course for a divorce. Building that kind of seniority is going to mean sitting in a seat way longer than you might otherwise.

International commutes go to poop in a hurry (including the inevitable strikes), and you have very limited back ups, you so you're going to have to have some fall back plans. When it does go bad, you can easily burn all your time off.

The most important take away is you have to have an accountant/tax person who absolutely understands international tax law and what you are doing, and not just "some guy" or DIY. If you think the IRS is bad, try getting sideways in Spain or the UK. You need every box checked and your records need to be tight.

None of these are insurmountable, and some make it work to their benefit. You really need to ask yourself what you want out of this job, and if the juice is worth the squeeze.

I commuted to BRU for one year before I got on with the airlines. It sucked, not fun at all. On the bright side, my wife got pregnant by a friend of mine, negating alimony, which made things a bit more tolerable.

I’ve met pilots who commute from Accra, Tokyo, Cannes (2 leg it through CDG in the winter), Poland, Germany. It’s very do-able. Your seniority will determine the QOL. Usually you aren’t double taxed, at least in the EU as far as I’ve heard. Just stack your trips up 1-2 weeks on and get a crash pad for in between trips.

Thanks all. A lot to consider. I'd be 20% or better seniority in category of choice so I think I'd be able to work the schedule as needed to stack trips.

Come on man! You can't leave us hanging on where in the world you're thinking of.

Yeah. Toronto or MEX to JFK not too crazy.

Tallin, Estonia to LAX is gonna suck.

I challenge you to show me anywhere in the FOM where it even talks about denying the jumpseat.

Show me in the FOM where it says a CA can't arbitrarily throw any FO off the trip without cause.

Let's not derail this, please.

Flew with a 330B who live about 20 min south of AMS. Pretty easy for him, but all of his overnights were at home lol. If the OP is going to live near AMS/CDG/LHR, it wouldn't be horrible once you get on a WB. Otherwise, that's a lot of the month away from home for long chunks.



Side note, I spent three months in Tallinn, great town!

When I posted that I had just gotten my team jacket for Estonia at Motocross of Nations this year which just showed up at the hotel from Talinn last night.

Estonia is great. One of our riders on the SMX team is from there and we are taking Harri and the rest of Team Estonia to MXoN in Indiana in October.

My dog has been named the Estonian ambassador of fluffiness. I kid you not, they got her a badge and a jersey for the race. She's of no help parking the rig at races. But the riders and their wives love her.

https://i.postimg.cc/15TDvv28/20240912-181237.jpg

i remember back in 2022 or 2023 when we had new hires going to the 765, there was a CA posing on FB considering denying the JS to the NH assigned observation on his flight to Europe. Hopefully that was an isolated incident.

Am I the only one wondering if you and your friend coordinated to do this intentionally???

The friend definitely got the short end of the stick with that deal.. :D

Hey guys, not a Delta guy, so pardon the intrusion. But having lived overseas for the better part of two decades, and still working for a US airline (ACMI Cargo), I do have a little bit of insight about how the taxes will work. The biggest factors will be if you establish bonafide residence in the new country, and the tax treaty, if any, between your new country and the United States. Bonafide residency is based on a few factors, such as home ownership, location of assets, family connections, etc. Tax treaties also vary, so it is not a one size fits all.

In my case, I now have dual citizenship, own a home, and maintain bank accounts in the foreign country (in the EU). I have no physical assets in the United States, and haven't since I moved, and only maintain a mail forwarding address and a single bank account in the States. So by the terms of the tax treaty, I am a bonafide resident of my new country. If I maintained a home, or owned property in the States, maintained most or all of my investments in the States, then my country of bonafide residence might be looked at differently.

The tax treaty between my country of residence and the United States has a specific provision for crew members of aircraft and ships, that states if the employing company engages in international transport or commerce, then the nation of bonafide residency has total claim on income taxes from employment, regardless of the country of location of the company (this may not be negotiated in all tax treaties, so it is best to check with a professional). If my U.S. based company only engaged in domestic U.S. flying, the the U.S. would get sole claim to tax my income from that company. As a U.S. citizen, I still have to file a U.S. tax return every year, but all of my tax from my employment income is actually paid to my residence country (it is a significantly higher tax rate, so not like I am escaping paying taxes. I'd be far better off if I could just pay U.S. taxes). Other sources of income are not covered under that provision of the treaty, so if I had income from U.S. investments, or U.S. inheritances, or something else, then I would have to pay U.S. tax on that income.

The ultimate point of my post is that there is no "one size fits all" rule when it comes to how expat taxes work, and that the proper way to handle it is to hire a tax professional who specializes in expat taxes. Trying to do it on your own, or accepting internet advice other than "hire a professional" can be very risky.

Great info, thanks.

How are 401ks handled? I'm also a dual citizen with a tax treaty country and can't wrap my mind around how 401k contributions/distributions would be taxed if I were to move back.

Are you contemplating moving to a location that Delta currently serves?

Wow. Sh**ty.

They won't say - which negates a lot of our help. Moving to Amsterdam? Easy...

Moving to Finland... less easy.

Yes. I didn’t say because we are just discussing the idea and feasibility currently. It’s data collection, not a serious discussion at this point. And because it’s so ridiculous I didn’t want people to poopoo on the idea before giving useful information.

It’s Sydney, Australia.

Aside from being a long flight it doesn’t seem that unreasonable to me. I think 2X a day on us alone and I’m sure Qantas has a few. Obviously you’d be LAX based. When you can hold the 350 then you can have a bunch of layovers at home too.

So two things come to mind. First, no JS since that's always a 4 pilot crew. Second, I'd imagine that nearly every active employee nonrevving on that route is doing so on a rare, unique excursion, so I'd think they would nearly all be using S2s. So your S2 allotment is going to run out very quickly and you may find nonrev difficult if your S3 is constantly getting jumped by everyone's S2.