Airline Pilot Central Forums

Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)
-   Delta (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/)
-   -   MOU 25-05 (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/151540-mou-25-05-a.html)

notEnuf 11-30-2025 11:32 AM


Originally Posted by ancman (Post 3974957)
I just did.

Even if we split the difference between your $92 million estimate and my $255 million estimate, we’re looking at a number that isn’t exactly a small blip on Flight Ops’ cost sheet. It’s a huge blunder on management’s end, and will be extremely valuable throughout section 6.

You posted before my edit so... Your calculation is guesswork, mine was from data. Is there a value ALPA assumes? Is that going to change if/when the company implements tech? The negotiating capital you are banking on is speculation at best. Please, please show me some concrete numbers and their calculations. Why is this so hard?

HelloNewnan 11-30-2025 11:48 AM


Originally Posted by ancman (Post 3974947)
You either didn’t analyze the data, or came up with a number that was too large to support your argument. Got it.

Here’s an easy way to look at it:

Assume that the average pilot salary is $300,000. Now assume that 5% of the average pilot’s awarded line results in last minute coverage (a low estimate, below the average 6%-ish sick rate, not including many other causes of last minute coverage).

You're wildly optimistic. Sick doesn't necessarily generate a last minute call out because people can be out sick for more than one trip, and you're scooping up a ton of people who are out short term waiting out their sick leave on the way to on disability, so their time gets dumped into OT way ahead or goes into the PBS bid due to sick/shadow. I went years between sick calls (bad luck getting sick on days off), and my guess is most people do as well. People are pretty good about commutes, and other causes for last minute trip burps. I can't remember the last time I had a trip disrupted outside an IROP or reroute.

Rather than making a wild guess at numbers and passing them off as facts, why don't you call your rep and ask. They can probably find what the real number is.

CRJphlyer 11-30-2025 11:49 AM

Is it enough for Delta to give a retiree a Porsche GT3 if they leave here with their sick bank untouched…

Meme In Command 11-30-2025 12:27 PM


Originally Posted by ancman (Post 3974951)
How does a Gucci trip that “should have” gone to the #1 pilot, but instead went to the #2 pilot, affect the plug in the category, when the plug had no realistic chance of being awarded it?

The communal 23M7 idea is absolutely an attempt to water down seniority. Regardless, it would only increase auto-accept use as everyone now has a stake in 23M7 payments.

That's not what's actually happening in real life. #1 gets 23M7 and the rest of the entire category plays "who can pick up the phone first". This is literally worse than first come first serve OT (and before you think about it, no that's not me advocating for it)

And no it's not watering seniority.

RightSide 11-30-2025 12:28 PM

What’s the limit if any on 23m7 payments? I saw numerous people getting 3 or 4 during the month going through the lists.

Khantahr 11-30-2025 12:32 PM

Do you have to have auto accept on to get a M7 payout? I thought just having the appropriate slip in and being the right one in line was sufficient even without auto accept.

FangsF15 11-30-2025 12:45 PM


Originally Posted by ancman (Post 3974947)
You either didn’t analyze the data, or came up with a number that was too large to support your argument. Got it.

Here’s an easy way to look at it:

Assume that the average pilot salary is $300,000. Now assume that 5% of the average pilot’s awarded line results in last minute coverage (a low estimate, below the average 6%-ish sick rate, not including many other causes of last minute coverage).

With auto-accept and M7 farming in full swing in most categories, every last-minute trip coverage results in 23M7 (even if it goes to an SC reserve).

5% * $300,000 * 17,000 pilots = $255 million per year

Keep in mind that the current surge in 23M7 use is relatively recent, and that the company has not yet realized these costs over a sustained period.

You’ve made some good arguments here.

This one is laughably poor. Sorry, it’s true. In effect, assuming the equivalent of every single pilot getting 5% of their pay from 23M7?? (Not to mention that avg pay is 300 grand?? BTW, 15-20% of a category is reserve)

Not even close. The first bold is ironic.

Planetrain 11-30-2025 12:54 PM

I think if you reject or ignore a trip awarded to you via auto-accept, it should automatically delete all of your PCS slips. That would force more people to put in legitimate slips vs farmers. It would speed up coverage too. (You are always free to re-put slips in)

BashiChuni 11-30-2025 01:25 PM


Originally Posted by Planetrain (Post 3975007)
I think if you reject or ignore a trip awarded to you via auto-accept, it should automatically delete all of your PCS slips. That would force more people to put in legitimate slips vs farmers. It would speed up coverage too. (You are always free to re-put slips in)

absolutely not.

once again this is a company problem...what are they going to give us to speed up THEIR coverage?

Verdell 11-30-2025 01:31 PM


Originally Posted by Planetrain (Post 3975007)
I think if you reject or ignore a trip awarded to you via auto-accept, it should automatically delete all of your PCS slips. That would force more people to put in legitimate slips vs farmers. It would speed up coverage too. (You are always free to re-put slips in)

The 23M7 "farmers" don't have to use auto-accept. They just need to have a slip in.

This is such a weird debate, led by lack of transparency on the company side. The pilot vs pilot witch hunt on auto-accept is insane.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:22 PM.


Website Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands