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-   -   A possible solution? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/152248-possible-solution.html)

tennisguru 02-10-2026 11:58 AM

A possible solution?
 
So I think everyone is in agreement that the trip coverage process is broken. The current usage of auto accept bogs down the process as it works 12 minutes per pilot though all the AA on each step of coverage. Obviously the company doesn’t like this as it leads to increased costs (23m7). But one main reason that pilots started using AA in the first place was because we were getting so many nuisance calls from ARCOS when a pilot was so far down the roster that they had no legitimate shot at the award. The one basic fix I’ve seen thrown around a lot is to just eliminate AA in its entirety. But while that solves the company’s speed problem it just brings back the flood of nuisance calls for pilots.

So, today I had a thought for a possible solution (inside section 6 negotiations): what if we got rid of AA but at the same time brought back batch sizes?

Ever since ARCOS rolled out, AA was always an option as everything was always a 2-step process. First the offer window then the acknowledgement window. Batch sizes reduced or eliminated the need for pilots to use AA since on any call out a pilot was at least in a much smaller pool and had a much higher chance of actually landing the trip. But what if we eliminated the 2-step process (like we already have for QS) but pair that with smaller batches? So let’s say we set it at a batch size of 15, and bump the window time up to 15 minutes to allow people more time to make a decisions, check commute options, etc. But just like QS, if you raise your hand in that window and are the senior pilot to do so when the window closes then you are obligated to fly the award. If no one in the batch raises their hand then ARCOS just calls the next 15 pilots in the next batch. What actual batch sizes to use would be something for the union and company to decide on.

So in that example you could work through 60 pilots in an hour, whereas right now if every AA pilot lets the full 12 minutes lapse you can only go through 5/hour. So trip coverage would move much faster than it is currently while not going full-tilt toward the blast-everyone-at-once solution if we simply just dumped AA. In this setup QS would still be available as an emergency step of coverage if report time was closing in, along with the required 23m7 payment to the skipped pilot.

I feel like this setup moves reasonably towards the company’s goal of faster trip coverage without just selling the farm and blasting every single pilot every single step every single time. Under this system a pilot getting an ARCOS call knows they have a reasonable chance of getting the award.

And lastly, I am only suggesting this as a solution inside of section 6 negotiations, still using our leverage of the current TC process to get a deal done and any potential cost savings rolled into other gains for our contract.

notEnuf 02-10-2026 12:14 PM


Originally Posted by tennisguru (Post 4002080)
So I think everyone is in agreement that the trip coverage process is broken. The current usage of auto accept bogs down the process as it works 12 minutes per pilot though all the AA on each step of coverage. Obviously the company doesn’t like this as it leads to increased costs (23m7). But one main reason that pilots started using AA in the first place was because we were getting so many nuisance calls from ARCOS when a pilot was so far down the roster that they had no legitimate shot at the award. The one basic fix I’ve seen thrown around a lot is to just eliminate AA in its entirety. But while that solves the company’s speed problem it just brings back the flood of nuisance calls for pilots.

So, today I had a thought for a possible solution (inside section 6 negotiations): what if we got rid of AA but at the same time brought back batch sizes?

Ever since ARCOS rolled out, AA was always an option as everything was always a 2-step process. First the offer window then the acknowledgement window. Batch sizes reduced or eliminated the need for pilots to use AA since on any call out a pilot was at least in a much smaller pool and had a much higher chance of actually landing the trip. But what if we eliminated the 2-step process (like we already have for QS) but pair that with smaller batches? So let’s say we set it at a batch size of 15, and bump the window time up to 15 minutes to allow people more time to make a decisions, check commute options, etc. But just like QS, if you raise your hand in that window and are the senior pilot to do so when the window closes then you are obligated to fly the award. If no one in the batch raises their hand then ARCOS just calls the next 15 pilots in the next batch. What actual batch sizes to use would be something for the union and company to decide on.

So in that example you could work through 60 pilots in an hour, whereas right now if every AA pilot lets the full 12 minutes lapse you can only go through 5/hour. So trip coverage would move much faster than it is currently while not going full-tilt toward the blast-everyone-at-once solution if we simply just dumped AA. In this setup QS would still be available as an emergency step of coverage if report time was closing in, along with the required 23m7 payment to the skipped pilot.

I feel like this setup moves reasonably towards the company’s goal of faster trip coverage without just selling the farm and blasting every single pilot every single step every single time. Under this system a pilot getting an ARCOS call knows they have a reasonable chance of getting the award.

And lastly, I am only suggesting this as a solution inside of section 6 negotiations, still using our leverage of the current TC process to get a deal done and any potential cost savings rolled into other gains for our contract.

It would have to go way below 15. 5 during the day, 3 during the sleep hours, and 1 during a WOCL. No need to wake 14 people unnecessarily from their sleep every time 1 trip goes out. That 15th person will be awakened 15 times before they get a trip. That could be in a single night or over several days, that's causal to fatigue.

All 5 Stages 02-10-2026 12:21 PM


Originally Posted by tennisguru (Post 4002080)
So I think everyone is in agreement that the trip coverage process is broken. The current usage of auto accept bogs down the process as it works 12 minutes per pilot though all the AA on each step of coverage. Obviously the company doesn’t like this as it leads to increased costs (23m7). But one main reason that pilots started using AA in the first place was because we were getting so many nuisance calls from ARCOS when a pilot was so far down the roster that they had no legitimate shot at the award. The one basic fix I’ve seen thrown around a lot is to just eliminate AA in its entirety. But while that solves the company’s speed problem it just brings back the flood of nuisance calls for pilots.

So, today I had a thought for a possible solution (inside section 6 negotiations): what if we got rid of AA but at the same time brought back batch sizes?

I'm flattered that you've bee reading my posts =)
We would need RCOS pay for batch size violations, too.

A5S

20Fathoms 02-10-2026 12:22 PM


Originally Posted by tennisguru (Post 4002080)
So I think everyone is in agreement that the trip coverage process is broken. The current usage of auto accept bogs down the process as it works 12 minutes per pilot though all the AA on each step of coverage. Obviously the company doesn’t like this as it leads to increased costs (23m7). But one main reason that pilots started using AA in the first place was because we were getting so many nuisance calls from ARCOS when a pilot was so far down the roster that they had no legitimate shot at the award. The one basic fix I’ve seen thrown around a lot is to just eliminate AA in its entirety. But while that solves the company’s speed problem it just brings back the flood of nuisance calls for pilots.

So, today I had a thought for a possible solution (inside section 6 negotiations): what if we got rid of AA but at the same time brought back batch sizes?

Ever since ARCOS rolled out, AA was always an option as everything was always a 2-step process. First the offer window then the acknowledgement window. Batch sizes reduced or eliminated the need for pilots to use AA since on any call out a pilot was at least in a much smaller pool and had a much higher chance of actually landing the trip. But what if we eliminated the 2-step process (like we already have for QS) but pair that with smaller batches? So let’s say we set it at a batch size of 15, and bump the window time up to 15 minutes to allow people more time to make a decisions, check commute options, etc. But just like QS, if you raise your hand in that window and are the senior pilot to do so when the window closes then you are obligated to fly the award. If no one in the batch raises their hand then ARCOS just calls the next 15 pilots in the next batch. What actual batch sizes to use would be something for the union and company to decide on.

So in that example you could work through 60 pilots in an hour, whereas right now if every AA pilot lets the full 12 minutes lapse you can only go through 5/hour. So trip coverage would move much faster than it is currently while not going full-tilt toward the blast-everyone-at-once solution if we simply just dumped AA. In this setup QS would still be available as an emergency step of coverage if report time was closing in, along with the required 23m7 payment to the skipped pilot.

I feel like this setup moves reasonably towards the company’s goal of faster trip coverage without just selling the farm and blasting every single pilot every single step every single time. Under this system a pilot getting an ARCOS call knows they have a reasonable chance of getting the award.

And lastly, I am only suggesting this as a solution inside of section 6 negotiations, still using our leverage of the current TC process to get a deal done and any potential cost savings rolled into other gains for our contract.

For WS maybe but hard no for GS. Getting woken up at 3 am while being 15th in line (and probably again at 4am when you are 14th in line etc etc) would get old really fast. Keeping AA for GS only and perhaps shortening the window a bit would solve 99 percent of the problem.

In exchange for no other concessions and a massive quid in section 6 of course.

tennisguru 02-10-2026 12:45 PM

Don’t get held up on the 15/batch number. That’s just one possible number out of many that could be used (1, 2, 5, 8, etc), either set all the time or variable based on nighttime hours and/or time to report. The point is more the overall concept not the nitty gritty details.

immolated 02-10-2026 12:59 PM


Originally Posted by tennisguru (Post 4002098)
Don’t get held up on the 15/batch number. That’s just one possible number out of many that could be used (1, 2, 5, 8, etc), either set all the time or variable based on nighttime hours and/or time to report. The point is more the overall concept not the nitty gritty details.

The company used to have this and...drumroll please...it was violated all the time. And often, just as slow. Read the old comms about RCOS violations.

ATL schedulers calling at 0700est for example not realizing the west coast pilots they were calling were asleep at 0400pst. Instead of proper training or automation that would easily fix this, the company wanted to go with changing the rules to what we have today. Let them deal with what they asked for and wait and see how things pan out during negotiations. After QS there is zero reason to rush, we're in a good spot.

The company has shown they rather throw roughly $200m per season at the issue rather than staff the scheduling department and pilots adequately. So the next "solution" will have to come during section 6 and recapture that quid to the pilot group, however they end up going about it. Don't give that away now, even if the process is a mess.

Abouttime2fish 02-10-2026 12:59 PM


Originally Posted by tennisguru (Post 4002098)
Don’t get held up on the 15/batch number. That’s just one possible number out of many that could be used (1, 2, 5, 8, etc), either set all the time or variable based on nighttime hours and/or time to report. The point is more the overall concept not the nitty gritty details.

6 …. 7 …. whatever

FyrePilot 02-10-2026 01:19 PM

Let the company figure it out and negotiate for it.

they wanted the big batch sizes in the first place.



You thought about this way too much already.…..

how about a flat $100 for every phone call I get for a trip I end up not getting awarded.

Meme In Command 02-10-2026 01:39 PM

Submitting a "call me for everything" slip and then getting mad when you get called for everything is peak pilot. Most of our problems get solved with using parameters.

That being said, I'd be all for eliminating the need to submit new slips every month. More pilots would put time and effort into submitting slips with parameters if:
1. They didn't have to every month
2. They were easier to "turn off/on"

NoDeskJob 02-10-2026 01:52 PM


Originally Posted by Meme In Command (Post 4002111)
Submitting a "call me for everything" slip and then getting mad when you get called for everything is peak pilot. Most of our problems get solved with using parameters.

That being said, I'd be all for eliminating the need to submit new slips every month. More pilots would put time and effort into submitting slips with parameters if:
1. They didn't have to every month
2. They were easier to "turn off/on"

since you mentioned parameters…I wish we could be more specific with our qualifiers. A 2 day trip from ATL-SFO Vs ATL-PBI is very different. I wish we could put “max block time” in a qualifier. You would think it would be an easy add…..but DL IT. 😕😕


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