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Well d@mn. I sifted through the ATL trips and thought “Sweet - the trips have actually gotten better finally”. Need to go double check myself here.
There were nearly 250 trips that reported after 1500 and done by 2230, albeit out of 1860 trips, IIRC. Still pretty bad, but that is up from like 15 the last few months. |
The roomy cockpit and tray table make trips a breeze! /S
All kidding aside I completely understand your complaints I hate short layovers and even worse before a 3 leg day. |
Originally Posted by artlight
(Post 4041924)
Just when I think they can't get any worse. I'm stunned at how bad the July trips are on ATL 320. And by bad I mean fatiguing, high duty day, short layovers, but mostly the lack of commutability. Pick 4 day trips for any given day. Start times after 10:30am, duty off before 10:30pm. 10 rotations on a given day, only *2* of them duty out before 10:00pm. That means in order to make the trip commutable on both ends, you have to have everything go right and better hope you're not delayed 20 minutes. Or you're spending the night in ATL. So many trips are 3-2-2-3. Layovers are 14:30, 12:15, 10:40. I'm so tired at work now I can't go do anything on a layover. That's not enough time to get food, exercise, anything. Just buzz like a drone bee back and forth and collapse in your hotel room so you can wake up and do it all over the next day. The optimizer has wrung every ounce of joy out of this job. And for the newer guys it was NOT always like this.
I absolutely loathe coming to work now. what has delta become. Worse than a regional. YIKES |
Originally Posted by Machsp
(Post 4042045)
absolutely atrocious. morale all time low, trips on the 320 absolutely suck. Company doesn't care. They're killing any fun in this job, they call us racketeers publicly, they threatened with reliability letters, no flexibility whatsoever, people use sick time just to catch a breath, watch out, you might get fired.
what has delta become. Worse than a regional. YIKES |
Originally Posted by Machsp
(Post 4042045)
absolutely atrocious. morale all time low, trips on the 320 absolutely suck. Company doesn't care. They're killing any fun in this job, they call us racketeers publicly, they threatened with reliability letters, no flexibility whatsoever, people use sick time just to catch a breath, watch out, you might get fired.
what has delta become. Worse than a regional. YIKES |
Originally Posted by artlight
(Post 4041924)
Just when I think they can't get any worse. I'm stunned at how bad the July trips are on ATL 320. And by bad I mean fatiguing, high duty day, short layovers, but mostly the lack of commutability. Pick 4 day trips for any given day. Start times after 10:30am, duty off before 10:30pm. 10 rotations on a given day, only *2* of them duty out before 10:00pm. That means in order to make the trip commutable on both ends, you have to have everything go right and better hope you're not delayed 20 minutes. Or you're spending the night in ATL. So many trips are 3-2-2-3. Layovers are 14:30, 12:15, 10:40. I'm so tired at work now I can't go do anything on a layover. That's not enough time to get food, exercise, anything. Just buzz like a drone bee back and forth and collapse in your hotel room so you can wake up and do it all over the next day. The optimizer has wrung every ounce of joy out of this job. And for the newer guys it was NOT always like this.
I absolutely loathe coming to work now. |
Originally Posted by CrazyEight
(Post 4042063)
Yes, there is a massive shortage, but I also feel there is another angle being worked. The 2025 Q4 and 2026 Q1 send everything to IA inside 2 hours was the opening salvo on the war with commuters. Having so few commutable trips is likely just another front in that campaign. Non commutable five days? Really? LOL
|
Straight from the Flops divisional goals 2026: “Implement initiatives that help improve our Block to Pay target” released in February.
Is anyone really surprised they’ve cranked up the optimizer going into contract negotiations and with this as one of the Flops goals for the year? |
Originally Posted by dmhpilot
(Post 4042090)
Straight from the Flops divisional goals 2026: “Implement initiatives that help improve our Block to Pay target” released in February.
Is anyone really surprised they’ve cranked up the optimizer going into contract negotiations and with this as one of the Flops goals for the year? I'm pretty sure the entire reason RG was hired, was to get our block to pay ratio as close to 1:1 as possible. |
Originally Posted by artlight
(Post 4041924)
Just when I think they can't get any worse. I'm stunned at how bad the July trips are on ATL 320. And by bad I mean fatiguing, high duty day, short layovers, but mostly the lack of commutability. Pick 4 day trips for any given day. Start times after 10:30am, duty off before 10:30pm. 10 rotations on a given day, only *2* of them duty out before 10:00pm. That means in order to make the trip commutable on both ends, you have to have everything go right and better hope you're not delayed 20 minutes. Or you're spending the night in ATL. So many trips are 3-2-2-3. Layovers are 14:30, 12:15, 10:40. I'm so tired at work now I can't go do anything on a layover. That's not enough time to get food, exercise, anything. Just buzz like a drone bee back and forth and collapse in your hotel room so you can wake up and do it all over the next day. The optimizer has wrung every ounce of joy out of this job. And for the newer guys it was NOT always like this.
I absolutely loathe coming to work now.
Originally Posted by CBreezy
(Post 4041955)
The only way they will learn is if the system breaks. Call in fatigued when you're fatigued. Don't press to get the on time on plane changes in ATL. Stop calling it a mission and don't do everything in your power to make it work at the expense of your personal health or safety or in the interest of a commute.
It is really sht that they are putting the customer and you in this position.
Originally Posted by Milk Man
(Post 4041968)
I love how Delta always talks about mitigating threats, but yet they create so many. They say when you are fatigued you may not even notice it. But build horrendous schedules. They are putting the safety call on pilots, cause they sure arent helping.
Originally Posted by SVCTA
(Post 4041976)
Every trip I get on the 320 anymore is a 3-2-3 or 3-2-2-3 with the longest duty day as the last day following the shortest layover. Typically 10.5-11 hour duty days following 10.5-11 our (as scheduled) layovers following flights that arrive around midnight. Sometimes that last day will have a 2+ hour sit just to let you marinate in it.
It would be comical if it weren't so maddening. My inkling is that they know you'll be fine before beginning leg 2 and won't fatigue out on your last day in the middle of the penalty lap, so you'll just suck it up. Yeah, yeah, yeah..."talk to your reps." I get it. But that ain't fixing anything. Yes, I have called in fatigued a lot this year. No, I don't skip meals and I tell everyone I fly with to not fly hungry and take your time getting fed. I am over it in a big way.
Originally Posted by dmhpilot
(Post 4042090)
Straight from the Flops divisional goals 2026: “Implement initiatives that help improve our Block to Pay target” released in February.
Is anyone really surprised they’ve cranked up the optimizer going into contract negotiations and with this as one of the Flops goals for the year?
Originally Posted by crewdawg
(Post 4042091)
I'm pretty sure the entire reason RG was hired, was to get our block to pay ratio as close to 1:1 as possible.
For fun I happened to go look back at my old logbooks (yes, I used to keep logbooks, you always had to be prepared) from my -88 days. This was before the explosion of RJ flying, so take that into consideration. Mostly 4 day trips. typical pattern 4-3-4-3 or 4-4-4-3 (that's legs per day). There was no 117 back then. Looking back on those trips, hard to believe we actually operated like that. Seems to be drifting back to that on the NB side. So, NB folks, what exactly is going on with rotations? I don't really look at your bid packs so I'm ignorant. Is the biggest gripe that duty periods are long (pushing max duty day and/or block limits) followed by short rests (we all know that a 11.5 hour overnight turns into a min rest overnight pretty quick in today's operation). CBreezy gave you the solution - call out fatigued. It's as simple as that. It's a tool we've been given as professional pilots. If you're beat, make the call. Full stop. The rotation construction won't improve until we put the breaks on it. You won't be called over excessive fatigue calls. If the rotation is fatiguing you - make the call. If, God forbid, something happened to you out there, they are going to peel you back and ask you about your fitness for duty. And guess what - that's solely on YOU. They will not blame the company for the rotation you decided to fly to the end fatigued. The rules give us this self determination. Use it. |
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