DAL TA and FPL: Volunteer Perspective
 

I had planned on sitting this one out.

I was running a bit weary of the typical pattern of freak-outs/freak-out over people’s freak-outs/an intentional morsel leaked/pre-committed yes-voters fighting the pre-committed no voters/then facts trickling in/facts getting mercilessly trampled/more freak-outs/finally the moderates tipping the scales on way or another. If anything, I was going to wait for the last week of the vote to follow the discussion, because that’s when the zealots run out of breath, and the posters I trust make the best arguments (in either direction).

Instead, I was asked to volunteer for P2P, and for once I stepped up. I figured I could have a greater impact, and get more of my questions answered. It’s also quite interesting to take a peek behind the curtain.

If I had bought in on the FPL myths propagated here, I would be sorely disappointed today. Essentially, I’m getting 2X2 days of FPL for what looks like a 30-day job. That’s the trade. I spent one night at the Renaissance, one night at the Dury Inn, basking in the lavishness of it all, and of course away from my wife and kids, who reluctantly agree that this is all for a good cause.

But imagine my trepidation at finally being “in”, and being indoctrinated in the dark side that’s being described here! So you can imagine my disappointment, when it turned out that the assignment consists of working for the pilots, without personal agendas, and working under such mundane constraints as being being truthful, and the guys in the room were, well, sort of boringly fixed on trying to get a few kernels of facts through.

Also interestingly, there is a great range of personal viewpoints among volunteers, on this TA, and TA’s of the past. There are guys volunteering that might not personally vote for the TA, but nonetheless set aside personal agendas, for the purpose of taking input from, and getting information to, the pilots. I don’t think there is anything more worthwhile than letting the pilot group speak on this. That’s much more important to me than how the group elects to vote.

I think most lurkers are smart enough to distinguish facts that are being manufactured from those that aren’t. They’re certainly entitled to know what’s actually in the TA. I would challenge everyone to make their best arguments on this TA, based on what’s actually in it.

.............removed

How did the NC get management to give us a nickel of per diem and so much less vacation than United and Alaska?

Are we going to nominate them to the ALPA hall of fame?

Dalpas problem for the most part is its structure not its people. Thanks for your hard work.

Now what which facts have you seen menufactured here or elsewhere? On the barebone facts I have seen little contention ;just maybe some clarifying here or there.

I

The only thing even remotely interesting about this particular zealot's post is this: Read the actual TA language. It's all you need.

Carl

As I said, it's early yet for the zealots to run out of breath, or stop plagiarizing.

But you did say something pertinent, and I agree with you:

I inform for free. You do so on flight pay loss.

Carl

http://cdn.gifbay.com/2013/09/ultima..._cam-88329.gif

Yet another personal attack... splendid. Can't figure out why this board doesn't draw a wider following.

An awful lot of "I's" for a post trying to manufacture a false sense of sacrifice. And my gosh, wayyyy too long.

Is that the latest desperation tactic from the embattled DALPA junta? "P2P guys--go out there and tell your story. Make it personal. And for God's sake, don't focus on the TA or its contents!"

I think the lurker can see how much how much FPL I get from the post you quoted. They can decide for themselves whether it was a good trade.

Way to bother reading the OP, wherein he used the "zealot" comment 1st.

Feel free to redirect your comment appropriately.

.

Really? There are some personal attacks on this board and when they cross the line we will delete them. Some probably sneak by undetected. We do not have the time or personnel to police every slight or criticism.

But if you are at all familiar with Web Forums you surely realize that this is one of the more civil forums. A lot more civil than Chit Chat which is surprising since that board is only DAL pilots and this board is anonymous.

Finally, do you think your post helps with the lack of civility?

Scoop

You're welcome to take my place any time, and provide a better service, if you think my "sacrifice" is too false, or the rewards too high.

Sink,

Thanks for volunteering. I hope you will stay factual and not try to sell the TA.

Question - Who if anybody is representing the no voters among the MEC?

Will we get any balance from the MEC or the P2P guys, or will we only officially hear from the PRO-TA side?

Scoop

Way to go Carl's "mini me" that's not a Delta pilot. Slamming another real Delta pilot.

They can indeed, Mr. Volunteer. ;)

Carl

Actually, I didn't slam anyone. All I did was post what I believe represents a good visual analogy of someone else who simply responded to the OP's attempt to slam him. It backfired, as do your continued and unprovoked attacks on me.

.

I find it interesting that the MEC hand picked certain P2P pilots over others. I've been a P2P volunteer (zero FPL) since our 1996 contract vote, where I told pilots the truth about what a huge POS it was. I volunteered again in 2000-01 and again in C2012. I wonder why nobody from P2P contacted me for FPL this time?

Oh...I just looked at my schedule and guess what? I was OFF all the days of the MEC Meetings, the TA vote, and I'm off this week too, so they could have got me for Free.

Or maybe that's why I wasn't called?

I did see where some guy looked at my schedule about 10 days ago, some guy I don't know and he never contacted me. Maybe I'll call him and ask if he needs any more P2P volunteers, because next week I've got a 4 day trip I'd like to drop, with pay...

Oh, I've read the TA, and I've read the letters by the No voting LEC Reps, and I've read MD's letter, and I'm voting NO, but only because PHUCK NO probably won't be on the ballot.

I haven't spoken to any p2p's yet but I bet besides the highlights of the contract, I imagine they talk about what a great thing it is to have a contract as opposed to other airlines that are in mediation.

I'm perfectly happy with the current contract, even though I voted no for it.

This TA does nothing for me.

Thanks for volunteering though!!

I do not envy your position.

Hi Scoop,

It's my purpose to stay factual. I was providing a little context about my volunteering as a courtesy for the regulars, since I am not speaking as a line guy for the next month or so.

The job description is surprisingly simple, and only involves trying to get info out, and back. Most of the guys, after both briefings, have a personal opinion about what's on the table, but the way I understand our job, we are not to represent personal agendas, so no one should be speaking for the pre-committed "yes" or "no" "camps".

As far as the MEC level, those are political discussions. I've spoken about our rotten politics enough back when I could call our politics rotten... :)

Must have been an oversight Timbo. :D

Carl

Every single P2P poster here, while earnestly claiming to be "objective," is clearly slanted towards DALPA's talking points.

I have yet to see a P2P poster acknowledge--much less highlight--the brutally obvious negatives of this POS.

They can call it whatever they want. This is a high pressure sales pitch.

Hey, I'm still available, just drop that next 4 day for me and I'll stop by Walmart and pick up a big jug of Kool-Aid and be right there!:D

As I told one guy who accused me of being a "Single Issue Voter" back in 1996,


"I WISH I could be a single issue voter! But this thing is so full of crap I can't narrow it down to just one!":rolleyes:


Hey, P2P guys, is Delta going bankrupt again this year? How about next year? No?

Then WHY are we giving back things like Profit Sharing, and Sick Leave Verification, and LCA trip drops, that we have ALREADY PAID FOR when we negotiated for them last time?? WHY?

We already traded other stuff to get these items in prior contracts! Why would we give them away now, when the company is flush with cash??

Thanks for sharing. Seriously. Glad to get an impartial view of the experience.

Now, I do have to ask: Did you inquire as to a ALPA produced "Con Paper" and how you might obtain one to help in P2P discussions?

Because all I've gotten so far are emails from DALPA emphasizing the side of the argument that favors a Yes vote.

http://ekollel.com/image/wait.gif


At this point I think it's safe to say you can expect any con letter to come out right after the vote (if ever), which of course is conveniently scheduled to close 5 days before the next earning announcement.

Btw, did you see Donatelli's letter selling the contract in which he promised not to sell the contract? Instant classic.

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/de...li-panics.html


Needless to say, I would be absolutely delighted to be proven wrong here and hope Sink R8 can provide. How about it Sink R8? Got a con paper to share?? No one else does.

.

Im not sure if Sink r8 is whining, being sarcastic, or both.

Listen, there are lots and lots and lots of P2P volunteers. Hundreds. The guy sitting next to you is probably one. Working with or for P2P does not obligate you to vote anything but your conscience.

It does require you to actually be informed, look at all of the resources, and be willing to answer questions. But you don't get any secret information, specialized training, or marching orders to sell the TA.

But don't be naive. Of course the MEC, neg committee, and chairman favor a yes vote. They are recommending it or they would not (or should not) have sent it to us. The official Pro/Con papers are a thing of the distant past, largely before we had membership ratification.

However, please note that the MEC did not recommend it unanimously. There is your Pro/Con right there.

True. They barely recommended and several yes votes are to send it to the pilots but were not an endorsement.

The only problem with being on the no side, if you are so inclined, is you only get 30 days to see the info, formulate your argument and spread the message, for free. Really isn't enough time to overcome myopic section 3ers.

Sink. Look forward to hearing what you learn from The Others. :D

This is the answer to the question in my sig line, and precisely why so little time is given for dissemination and debate.

.

I'm p2p, but haven't been asked to do FPL stuff. :( No love!

I wonder why. ;)

Didn't you tick them off on day 1?

Maybe I should sign up. I mean I'm approaching 20,000 worthless posts here. I should have some sway. I'm going to sign up as FTB.

Shoot man, I'd pay you flight pay loss to continue some of the stuff you post.

Carl

Yep! I like starting off on the wrong foot. :) 14,000+ here of uselessness other than triggering the great underboob night of 2008 and a few banhammers!

... and I've been trying to recruit him as Vice Chair.

Tom D.

And to think I used to talk to you about cars...:D