DAL TA and FPL: Volunteer Perspective
06-16-2015, 10:22 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
DAL TA and FPL: Volunteer Perspective
I had planned on sitting this one out.
I was running a bit weary of the typical pattern of freak-outs/freak-out over people’s freak-outs/an intentional morsel leaked/pre-committed yes-voters fighting the pre-committed no voters/then facts trickling in/facts getting mercilessly trampled/more freak-outs/finally the moderates tipping the scales on way or another. If anything, I was going to wait for the last week of the vote to follow the discussion, because that’s when the zealots run out of breath, and the posters I trust make the best arguments (in either direction).
Instead, I was asked to volunteer for P2P, and for once I stepped up. I figured I could have a greater impact, and get more of my questions answered. It’s also quite interesting to take a peek behind the curtain.
If I had bought in on the FPL myths propagated here, I would be sorely disappointed today. Essentially, I’m getting 2X2 days of FPL for what looks like a 30-day job. That’s the trade. I spent one night at the Renaissance, one night at the Dury Inn, basking in the lavishness of it all, and of course away from my wife and kids, who reluctantly agree that this is all for a good cause.
But imagine my trepidation at finally being “in”, and being indoctrinated in the dark side that’s being described here! So you can imagine my disappointment, when it turned out that the assignment consists of working for the pilots, without personal agendas, and working under such mundane constraints as being being truthful, and the guys in the room were, well, sort of boringly fixed on trying to get a few kernels of facts through.
Also interestingly, there is a great range of personal viewpoints among volunteers, on this TA, and TA’s of the past. There are guys volunteering that might not personally vote for the TA, but nonetheless set aside personal agendas, for the purpose of taking input from, and getting information to, the pilots. I don’t think there is anything more worthwhile than letting the pilot group speak on this. That’s much more important to me than how the group elects to vote.
I think most lurkers are smart enough to distinguish facts that are being manufactured from those that aren’t. They’re certainly entitled to know what’s actually in the TA. I would challenge everyone to make their best arguments on this TA, based on what’s actually in it.
I was running a bit weary of the typical pattern of freak-outs/freak-out over people’s freak-outs/an intentional morsel leaked/pre-committed yes-voters fighting the pre-committed no voters/then facts trickling in/facts getting mercilessly trampled/more freak-outs/finally the moderates tipping the scales on way or another. If anything, I was going to wait for the last week of the vote to follow the discussion, because that’s when the zealots run out of breath, and the posters I trust make the best arguments (in either direction).
Instead, I was asked to volunteer for P2P, and for once I stepped up. I figured I could have a greater impact, and get more of my questions answered. It’s also quite interesting to take a peek behind the curtain.
If I had bought in on the FPL myths propagated here, I would be sorely disappointed today. Essentially, I’m getting 2X2 days of FPL for what looks like a 30-day job. That’s the trade. I spent one night at the Renaissance, one night at the Dury Inn, basking in the lavishness of it all, and of course away from my wife and kids, who reluctantly agree that this is all for a good cause.
But imagine my trepidation at finally being “in”, and being indoctrinated in the dark side that’s being described here! So you can imagine my disappointment, when it turned out that the assignment consists of working for the pilots, without personal agendas, and working under such mundane constraints as being being truthful, and the guys in the room were, well, sort of boringly fixed on trying to get a few kernels of facts through.
Also interestingly, there is a great range of personal viewpoints among volunteers, on this TA, and TA’s of the past. There are guys volunteering that might not personally vote for the TA, but nonetheless set aside personal agendas, for the purpose of taking input from, and getting information to, the pilots. I don’t think there is anything more worthwhile than letting the pilot group speak on this. That’s much more important to me than how the group elects to vote.
I think most lurkers are smart enough to distinguish facts that are being manufactured from those that aren’t. They’re certainly entitled to know what’s actually in the TA. I would challenge everyone to make their best arguments on this TA, based on what’s actually in it.
06-16-2015, 12:54 PM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
Originally Posted by Sink r8
I had planned on sitting this one out.
I was running a bit weary of the typical pattern of freak-outs/freak-out over people’s freak-outs/an intentional morsel leaked/pre-committed yes-voters fighting the pre-committed no voters/then facts trickling in/facts getting mercilessly trampled/more freak-outs/finally the moderates tipping the scales on way or another. If anything, I was going to wait for the last week of the vote to follow the discussion, because that’s when the zealots run out of breath, and the posters I trust make the best arguments (in either direction).
Instead, I was asked to volunteer for P2P, and for once I stepped up. I figured I could have a greater impact, and get more of my questions answered. It’s also quite interesting to take a peek behind the curtain.
If I had bought in on the FPL myths propagated here, I would be sorely disappointed today. Essentially, I’m getting 2X2 days of FPL for what looks like a 30-day job. That’s the trade. I spent one night at the Renaissance, one night at the Dury Inn, basking in the lavishness of it all, and of course away from my wife and kids, who reluctantly agree that this is all for a good cause.
But imagine my trepidation at finally being “in”, and being indoctrinated in the dark side that’s being described here! So you can imagine my disappointment, when it turned out that the assignment consists of working for the pilots, without personal agendas, and working under such mundane constraints as being being truthful, and the guys in the room were, well, sort of boringly fixed on trying to get a few kernels of facts through.
Also interestingly, there is a great range of personal viewpoints among volunteers, on this TA, and TA’s of the past. There are guys volunteering that might not personally vote for the TA, but nonetheless set aside personal agendas, for the purpose of taking input from, and getting information to, the pilots. I don’t think there is anything more worthwhile than letting the pilot group speak on this. That’s much more important to me than how the group elects to vote.
I think most lurkers are smart enough to distinguish facts that are being manufactured from those that aren’t. They’re certainly entitled to know what’s actually in the TA. I would challenge everyone to make their best arguments on this TA, based on what’s actually in it.
I was running a bit weary of the typical pattern of freak-outs/freak-out over people’s freak-outs/an intentional morsel leaked/pre-committed yes-voters fighting the pre-committed no voters/then facts trickling in/facts getting mercilessly trampled/more freak-outs/finally the moderates tipping the scales on way or another. If anything, I was going to wait for the last week of the vote to follow the discussion, because that’s when the zealots run out of breath, and the posters I trust make the best arguments (in either direction).
Instead, I was asked to volunteer for P2P, and for once I stepped up. I figured I could have a greater impact, and get more of my questions answered. It’s also quite interesting to take a peek behind the curtain.
If I had bought in on the FPL myths propagated here, I would be sorely disappointed today. Essentially, I’m getting 2X2 days of FPL for what looks like a 30-day job. That’s the trade. I spent one night at the Renaissance, one night at the Dury Inn, basking in the lavishness of it all, and of course away from my wife and kids, who reluctantly agree that this is all for a good cause.
But imagine my trepidation at finally being “in”, and being indoctrinated in the dark side that’s being described here! So you can imagine my disappointment, when it turned out that the assignment consists of working for the pilots, without personal agendas, and working under such mundane constraints as being being truthful, and the guys in the room were, well, sort of boringly fixed on trying to get a few kernels of facts through.
Also interestingly, there is a great range of personal viewpoints among volunteers, on this TA, and TA’s of the past. There are guys volunteering that might not personally vote for the TA, but nonetheless set aside personal agendas, for the purpose of taking input from, and getting information to, the pilots. I don’t think there is anything more worthwhile than letting the pilot group speak on this. That’s much more important to me than how the group elects to vote.
I think most lurkers are smart enough to distinguish facts that are being manufactured from those that aren’t. They’re certainly entitled to know what’s actually in the TA. I would challenge everyone to make their best arguments on this TA, based on what’s actually in it.
Are we going to nominate them to the ALPA hall of fame?
06-16-2015, 01:03 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 102
Originally Posted by Sink r8
I had planned on sitting this one out.
I was running a bit weary of the typical pattern of freak-outs/freak-out over people’s freak-outs/an intentional morsel leaked/pre-committed yes-voters fighting the pre-committed no voters/then facts trickling in/facts getting mercilessly trampled/more freak-outs/finally the moderates tipping the scales on way or another. If anything, I was going to wait for the last week of the vote to follow the discussion, because that’s when the zealots run out of breath, and the posters I trust make the best arguments (in either direction).
Instead, I was asked to volunteer for P2P, and for once I stepped up. I figured I could have a greater impact, and get more of my questions answered. It’s also quite interesting to take a peek behind the curtain.
If I had bought in on the FPL myths propagated here, I would be sorely disappointed today. Essentially, I’m getting 2X2 days of FPL for what looks like a 30-day job. That’s the trade. I spent one night at the Renaissance, one night at the Dury Inn, basking in the lavishness of it all, and of course away from my wife and kids, who reluctantly agree that this is all for a good cause.
But imagine my trepidation at finally being “in”, and being indoctrinated in the dark side that’s being described here! So you can imagine my disappointment, when it turned out that the assignment consists of working for the pilots, without personal agendas, and working under such mundane constraints as being being truthful, and the guys in the room were, well, sort of boringly fixed on trying to get a few kernels of facts through.
Also interestingly, there is a great range of personal viewpoints among volunteers, on this TA, and TA’s of the past. There are guys volunteering that might not personally vote for the TA, but nonetheless set aside personal agendas, for the purpose of taking input from, and getting information to, the pilots. I don’t think there is anything more worthwhile than letting the pilot group speak on this. That’s much more important to me than how the group elects to vote.
I think most lurkers are smart enough to distinguish facts that are being manufactured from those that aren’t. They’re certainly entitled to know what’s actually in the TA. I would challenge everyone to make their best arguments on this TA, based on what’s actually in it.
I was running a bit weary of the typical pattern of freak-outs/freak-out over people’s freak-outs/an intentional morsel leaked/pre-committed yes-voters fighting the pre-committed no voters/then facts trickling in/facts getting mercilessly trampled/more freak-outs/finally the moderates tipping the scales on way or another. If anything, I was going to wait for the last week of the vote to follow the discussion, because that’s when the zealots run out of breath, and the posters I trust make the best arguments (in either direction).
Instead, I was asked to volunteer for P2P, and for once I stepped up. I figured I could have a greater impact, and get more of my questions answered. It’s also quite interesting to take a peek behind the curtain.
If I had bought in on the FPL myths propagated here, I would be sorely disappointed today. Essentially, I’m getting 2X2 days of FPL for what looks like a 30-day job. That’s the trade. I spent one night at the Renaissance, one night at the Dury Inn, basking in the lavishness of it all, and of course away from my wife and kids, who reluctantly agree that this is all for a good cause.
But imagine my trepidation at finally being “in”, and being indoctrinated in the dark side that’s being described here! So you can imagine my disappointment, when it turned out that the assignment consists of working for the pilots, without personal agendas, and working under such mundane constraints as being being truthful, and the guys in the room were, well, sort of boringly fixed on trying to get a few kernels of facts through.
Also interestingly, there is a great range of personal viewpoints among volunteers, on this TA, and TA’s of the past. There are guys volunteering that might not personally vote for the TA, but nonetheless set aside personal agendas, for the purpose of taking input from, and getting information to, the pilots. I don’t think there is anything more worthwhile than letting the pilot group speak on this. That’s much more important to me than how the group elects to vote.
I think most lurkers are smart enough to distinguish facts that are being manufactured from those that aren’t. They’re certainly entitled to know what’s actually in the TA. I would challenge everyone to make their best arguments on this TA, based on what’s actually in it.
Now what which facts have you seen menufactured here or elsewhere? On the barebone facts I have seen little contention ;just maybe some clarifying here or there.
I
06-16-2015, 01:24 PM
#6
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by Sink r8
I had planned on sitting this one out.
I was running a bit weary of the typical pattern of freak-outs/freak-out over people’s freak-outs/an intentional morsel leaked/pre-committed yes-voters fighting the pre-committed no voters/then facts trickling in/facts getting mercilessly trampled/more freak-outs/finally the moderates tipping the scales on way or another. If anything, I was going to wait for the last week of the vote to follow the discussion, because that’s when the zealots run out of breath, and the posters I trust make the best arguments (in either direction).
Instead, I was asked to volunteer for P2P, and for once I stepped up. I figured I could have a greater impact, and get more of my questions answered. It’s also quite interesting to take a peek behind the curtain.
If I had bought in on the FPL myths propagated here, I would be sorely disappointed today. Essentially, I’m getting 2X2 days of FPL for what looks like a 30-day job. That’s the trade. I spent one night at the Renaissance, one night at the Dury Inn, basking in the lavishness of it all, and of course away from my wife and kids, who reluctantly agree that this is all for a good cause.
But imagine my trepidation at finally being “in”, and being indoctrinated in the dark side that’s being described here! So you can imagine my disappointment, when it turned out that the assignment consists of working for the pilots, without personal agendas, and working under such mundane constraints as being being truthful, and the guys in the room were, well, sort of boringly fixed on trying to get a few kernels of facts through.
Also interestingly, there is a great range of personal viewpoints among volunteers, on this TA, and TA’s of the past. There are guys volunteering that might not personally vote for the TA, but nonetheless set aside personal agendas, for the purpose of taking input from, and getting information to, the pilots. I don’t think there is anything more worthwhile than letting the pilot group speak on this. That’s much more important to me than how the group elects to vote.
I think most lurkers are smart enough to distinguish facts that are being manufactured from those that aren’t. They’re certainly entitled to know what’s actually in the TA. I would challenge everyone to make their best arguments on this TA, based on what’s actually in it.
I was running a bit weary of the typical pattern of freak-outs/freak-out over people’s freak-outs/an intentional morsel leaked/pre-committed yes-voters fighting the pre-committed no voters/then facts trickling in/facts getting mercilessly trampled/more freak-outs/finally the moderates tipping the scales on way or another. If anything, I was going to wait for the last week of the vote to follow the discussion, because that’s when the zealots run out of breath, and the posters I trust make the best arguments (in either direction).
Instead, I was asked to volunteer for P2P, and for once I stepped up. I figured I could have a greater impact, and get more of my questions answered. It’s also quite interesting to take a peek behind the curtain.
If I had bought in on the FPL myths propagated here, I would be sorely disappointed today. Essentially, I’m getting 2X2 days of FPL for what looks like a 30-day job. That’s the trade. I spent one night at the Renaissance, one night at the Dury Inn, basking in the lavishness of it all, and of course away from my wife and kids, who reluctantly agree that this is all for a good cause.
But imagine my trepidation at finally being “in”, and being indoctrinated in the dark side that’s being described here! So you can imagine my disappointment, when it turned out that the assignment consists of working for the pilots, without personal agendas, and working under such mundane constraints as being being truthful, and the guys in the room were, well, sort of boringly fixed on trying to get a few kernels of facts through.
Also interestingly, there is a great range of personal viewpoints among volunteers, on this TA, and TA’s of the past. There are guys volunteering that might not personally vote for the TA, but nonetheless set aside personal agendas, for the purpose of taking input from, and getting information to, the pilots. I don’t think there is anything more worthwhile than letting the pilot group speak on this. That’s much more important to me than how the group elects to vote.
I think most lurkers are smart enough to distinguish facts that are being manufactured from those that aren’t. They’re certainly entitled to know what’s actually in the TA. I would challenge everyone to make their best arguments on this TA, based on what’s actually in it.
Carl
06-16-2015, 01:33 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
The only thing even remotely interesting about this particular zealot's post is this: Read the actual TA language. It's all you need.
But you did say something pertinent, and I agree with you:
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Read the actual TA language. It's all you need.
06-16-2015, 01:39 PM
#8
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by Sink r8
As I said, it's early yet for the zealots to run out of breath, or stop plagiarizing.
But you did say something pertinent, and I agree with you:
But you did say something pertinent, and I agree with you:
Carl
06-16-2015, 01:48 PM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Position: Downward-Facing Dog Pose
Posts: 1,537
Originally Posted by Sink r8
As I said, it's early yet for the zealots to run out of breath, or stop plagiarizing.
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
The difference is I inform for free. You do so on flight pay loss.
Carl
Carl
06-16-2015, 01:50 PM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 439
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
The only thing even remotely interesting about this particular zealot's post is this: Read the actual TA language. It's all you need.
Carl
Carl
