DAL TA and FPL: Volunteer Perspective
06-16-2015, 02:44 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Position: Entitled rocket surgeon!
Posts: 193
I haven't spoken to any p2p's yet but I bet besides the highlights of the contract, I imagine they talk about what a great thing it is to have a contract as opposed to other airlines that are in mediation.
I'm perfectly happy with the current contract, even though I voted no for it.
This TA does nothing for me.
Thanks for volunteering though!!
I do not envy your position.
I'm perfectly happy with the current contract, even though I voted no for it.
This TA does nothing for me.
Thanks for volunteering though!!
I do not envy your position.
06-16-2015, 02:54 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
It's my purpose to stay factual. I was providing a little context about my volunteering as a courtesy for the regulars, since I am not speaking as a line guy for the next month or so.
The job description is surprisingly simple, and only involves trying to get info out, and back. Most of the guys, after both briefings, have a personal opinion about what's on the table, but the way I understand our job, we are not to represent personal agendas, so no one should be speaking for the pre-committed "yes" or "no" "camps".
As far as the MEC level, those are political discussions. I've spoken about our rotten politics enough back when I could call our politics rotten...
Last edited by Sink r8; 06-16-2015 at 03:08 PM.
06-16-2015, 03:00 PM
#23
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
I find it interesting that the MEC hand picked certain P2P pilots over others. I've been a P2P volunteer (zero FPL) since our 1996 contract vote, where I told pilots the truth about what a huge POS it was. I volunteered again in 2000-01 and again in C2012. I wonder why nobody from P2P contacted me for FPL this time?
Oh...I just looked at my schedule and guess what? I was OFF all the days of the MEC Meetings, the TA vote, and I'm off this week too, so they could have got me for Free.
Or maybe that's why I wasn't called?
I did see where some guy looked at my schedule about 10 days ago, some guy I don't know and he never contacted me. Maybe I'll call him and ask if he needs any more P2P volunteers, because next week I've got a 4 day trip I'd like to drop, with pay...
Oh, I've read the TA, and I've read the letters by the No voting LEC Reps, and I've read MD's letter, and I'm voting NO, but only because PHUCK NO probably won't be on the ballot.
Oh...I just looked at my schedule and guess what? I was OFF all the days of the MEC Meetings, the TA vote, and I'm off this week too, so they could have got me for Free.
Or maybe that's why I wasn't called?
I did see where some guy looked at my schedule about 10 days ago, some guy I don't know and he never contacted me. Maybe I'll call him and ask if he needs any more P2P volunteers, because next week I've got a 4 day trip I'd like to drop, with pay...
Oh, I've read the TA, and I've read the letters by the No voting LEC Reps, and I've read MD's letter, and I'm voting NO, but only because PHUCK NO probably won't be on the ballot.
Carl
06-16-2015, 03:08 PM
#24
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
Every single P2P poster here, while earnestly claiming to be "objective," is clearly slanted towards DALPA's talking points.
I have yet to see a P2P poster acknowledge--much less highlight--the brutally obvious negatives of this POS.
They can call it whatever they want. This is a high pressure sales pitch.
I have yet to see a P2P poster acknowledge--much less highlight--the brutally obvious negatives of this POS.
They can call it whatever they want. This is a high pressure sales pitch.
06-16-2015, 03:22 PM
#25
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,728
Hey, I'm still available, just drop that next 4 day for me and I'll stop by Walmart and pick up a big jug of Kool-Aid and be right there!
As I told one guy who accused me of being a "Single Issue Voter" back in 1996,
"I WISH I could be a single issue voter! But this thing is so full of crap I can't narrow it down to just one!"
Hey, P2P guys, is Delta going bankrupt again this year? How about next year? No?
Then WHY are we giving back things like Profit Sharing, and Sick Leave Verification, and LCA trip drops, that we have ALREADY PAID FOR when we negotiated for them last time?? WHY?
We already traded other stuff to get these items in prior contracts! Why would we give them away now, when the company is flush with cash??
As I told one guy who accused me of being a "Single Issue Voter" back in 1996,
"I WISH I could be a single issue voter! But this thing is so full of crap I can't narrow it down to just one!"
Hey, P2P guys, is Delta going bankrupt again this year? How about next year? No?
Then WHY are we giving back things like Profit Sharing, and Sick Leave Verification, and LCA trip drops, that we have ALREADY PAID FOR when we negotiated for them last time?? WHY?
We already traded other stuff to get these items in prior contracts! Why would we give them away now, when the company is flush with cash??
06-16-2015, 03:43 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Position: Downward-Facing Dog Pose
Posts: 1,537
Hey, P2P guys, is Delta going bankrupt again this year? How about next year? No?
Then WHY are we giving back things like Profit Sharing, and Sick Leave Verification, and LCA trip drops, that we have ALREADY PAID FOR when we negotiated for them last time?? WHY?
We already traded other stuff to get these items in prior contracts! Why would we give them away now, when the company is flush with cash??
06-16-2015, 05:00 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Permanently scarred
Posts: 1,707
I had planned on sitting this one out.
I was running a bit weary of the typical pattern of freak-outs/freak-out over people’s freak-outs/an intentional morsel leaked/pre-committed yes-voters fighting the pre-committed no voters/then facts trickling in/facts getting mercilessly trampled/more freak-outs/finally the moderates tipping the scales on way or another. If anything, I was going to wait for the last week of the vote to follow the discussion, because that’s when the zealots run out of breath, and the posters I trust make the best arguments (in either direction).
Instead, I was asked to volunteer for P2P, and for once I stepped up. I figured I could have a greater impact, and get more of my questions answered. It’s also quite interesting to take a peek behind the curtain.
If I had bought in on the FPL myths propagated here, I would be sorely disappointed today. Essentially, I’m getting 2X2 days of FPL for what looks like a 30-day job. That’s the trade. I spent one night at the Renaissance, one night at the Dury Inn, basking in the lavishness of it all, and of course away from my wife and kids, who reluctantly agree that this is all for a good cause.
But imagine my trepidation at finally being “in”, and being indoctrinated in the dark side that’s being described here! So you can imagine my disappointment, when it turned out that the assignment consists of working for the pilots, without personal agendas, and working under such mundane constraints as being being truthful, and the guys in the room were, well, sort of boringly fixed on trying to get a few kernels of facts through.
Also interestingly, there is a great range of personal viewpoints among volunteers, on this TA, and TA’s of the past. There are guys volunteering that might not personally vote for the TA, but nonetheless set aside personal agendas, for the purpose of taking input from, and getting information to, the pilots. I don’t think there is anything more worthwhile than letting the pilot group speak on this. That’s much more important to me than how the group elects to vote.
I think most lurkers are smart enough to distinguish facts that are being manufactured from those that aren’t. They’re certainly entitled to know what’s actually in the TA. I would challenge everyone to make their best arguments on this TA, based on what’s actually in it.
I was running a bit weary of the typical pattern of freak-outs/freak-out over people’s freak-outs/an intentional morsel leaked/pre-committed yes-voters fighting the pre-committed no voters/then facts trickling in/facts getting mercilessly trampled/more freak-outs/finally the moderates tipping the scales on way or another. If anything, I was going to wait for the last week of the vote to follow the discussion, because that’s when the zealots run out of breath, and the posters I trust make the best arguments (in either direction).
Instead, I was asked to volunteer for P2P, and for once I stepped up. I figured I could have a greater impact, and get more of my questions answered. It’s also quite interesting to take a peek behind the curtain.
If I had bought in on the FPL myths propagated here, I would be sorely disappointed today. Essentially, I’m getting 2X2 days of FPL for what looks like a 30-day job. That’s the trade. I spent one night at the Renaissance, one night at the Dury Inn, basking in the lavishness of it all, and of course away from my wife and kids, who reluctantly agree that this is all for a good cause.
But imagine my trepidation at finally being “in”, and being indoctrinated in the dark side that’s being described here! So you can imagine my disappointment, when it turned out that the assignment consists of working for the pilots, without personal agendas, and working under such mundane constraints as being being truthful, and the guys in the room were, well, sort of boringly fixed on trying to get a few kernels of facts through.
Also interestingly, there is a great range of personal viewpoints among volunteers, on this TA, and TA’s of the past. There are guys volunteering that might not personally vote for the TA, but nonetheless set aside personal agendas, for the purpose of taking input from, and getting information to, the pilots. I don’t think there is anything more worthwhile than letting the pilot group speak on this. That’s much more important to me than how the group elects to vote.
I think most lurkers are smart enough to distinguish facts that are being manufactured from those that aren’t. They’re certainly entitled to know what’s actually in the TA. I would challenge everyone to make their best arguments on this TA, based on what’s actually in it.
Now, I do have to ask: Did you inquire as to a ALPA produced "Con Paper" and how you might obtain one to help in P2P discussions?
Because all I've gotten so far are emails from DALPA emphasizing the side of the argument that favors a Yes vote.
06-16-2015, 05:12 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Position: Downward-Facing Dog Pose
Posts: 1,537
At this point I think it's safe to say you can expect any con letter to come out right after the vote (if ever), which of course is conveniently scheduled to close 5 days before the next earning announcement.
Btw, did you see Donatelli's letter selling the contract in which he promised not to sell the contract? Instant classic.
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/de...li-panics.html
Needless to say, I would be absolutely delighted to be proven wrong here and hope Sink R8 can provide. How about it Sink R8? Got a con paper to share?? No one else does.
.
06-16-2015, 05:30 PM
#29
FlySmarterNotHarder
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: fifi flyer
Posts: 558
Im not sure if Sink r8 is whining, being sarcastic, or both.
Listen, there are lots and lots and lots of P2P volunteers. Hundreds. The guy sitting next to you is probably one. Working with or for P2P does not obligate you to vote anything but your conscience.
It does require you to actually be informed, look at all of the resources, and be willing to answer questions. But you don't get any secret information, specialized training, or marching orders to sell the TA.
But don't be naive. Of course the MEC, neg committee, and chairman favor a yes vote. They are recommending it or they would not (or should not) have sent it to us. The official Pro/Con papers are a thing of the distant past, largely before we had membership ratification.
However, please note that the MEC did not recommend it unanimously. There is your Pro/Con right there.
Listen, there are lots and lots and lots of P2P volunteers. Hundreds. The guy sitting next to you is probably one. Working with or for P2P does not obligate you to vote anything but your conscience.
It does require you to actually be informed, look at all of the resources, and be willing to answer questions. But you don't get any secret information, specialized training, or marching orders to sell the TA.
But don't be naive. Of course the MEC, neg committee, and chairman favor a yes vote. They are recommending it or they would not (or should not) have sent it to us. The official Pro/Con papers are a thing of the distant past, largely before we had membership ratification.
However, please note that the MEC did not recommend it unanimously. There is your Pro/Con right there.
06-16-2015, 05:53 PM
#30
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
True. They barely recommended and several yes votes are to send it to the pilots but were not an endorsement.
The only problem with being on the no side, if you are so inclined, is you only get 30 days to see the info, formulate your argument and spread the message, for free. Really isn't enough time to overcome myopic section 3ers.
Sink. Look forward to hearing what you learn from The Others.
The only problem with being on the no side, if you are so inclined, is you only get 30 days to see the info, formulate your argument and spread the message, for free. Really isn't enough time to overcome myopic section 3ers.
Sink. Look forward to hearing what you learn from The Others.
