MEC Chairman - All FO's Seniority is for Sale
 

This is the message he has sent to all Delta First Officers. Trips being pulled for LCA is a direct assault on ALL First Officer's seniority. Seniority that they have earned. As the leader of all Delta Pilots he represents he should have looked across the table and stated LOUD AND CLEAR, "DELTA PILOTS SENIORITY IS NOT FOR SALE. END OF DISCUSSION".

I couldn't agree more! I mean, really, why should someone actually have to come to work to get paid?? Totally unreasonable!:rolleyes:

You're a sellout.

Status quo is better than this pos.

FOs seniority is for sale. Is that much different than a b scale?

$5b stock buy back and we get this crap TAd.

Read the name of the thread. The problem with this concept isn't the pay, it's the seniority bypass that will take place. Do I personally think FOs should get 100% pay and pickup WS or GS on top of that? No but to take a sledge hammer to the policy isn't warranted, it should have been simply adjusted somewhat. Reading comprehension not your thing?

Why did it need to be adjusted?

Is that a new survey item?

That only effects a small percent of guys. In my category the ATL ER it's around 5% with all the training. It's the other 95% that get worse trips that we should protect. And why would we do anything to hurt even 5% of pilots?

I'm sure a lot of people put that on their survey:) I just think that some middle ground could have be reached rather then using a nuke...

At the roadshow, they said most categories were less than 2%. And the worst were new hire categories. Show your math.

I love how you guys who never lived under a B-scale throw that term around so casually.

I'm not throwing it around casually. I just don't have better words for what it is.

Ps I lived under the b scale.

Answered ad nauseum.

https://tafacts.com/home

It's easy matter of fact it's probably higher than 5%. There are around 50 LCA on the ATL ER. Take 75% of that is 37. Say 12 of them swap all their trips or weren't assigned OE to start with. That leaves 25. There are around 500 FO line holders. That is 5%. That is a probably a conservative figure. BTW the ER has become a new hire plane.

Even if it is 2% is it ok with you to lower your FOs senority by 2%? I wouldn't be ok with doing it to my captains.

Why don't we let all the LCA bid before the all the captains? That would not go over very well. It's ok to take trips away from FO to bid .

And wait until the retirements really start kicking in and the commensurate training ramps up!

Does the company abrogate your seniority when they curtail training and LCA drops aren't available?

Translation: since I can't get that good deal, no one else should.

Alternate translation: The company really needed some help, and they asked nicely, so we caved.

If the sales team said it at the road show, it must be accurate. :rolleyes:

Is that you, alfaromeo? Whoever you are, you've got the requisite ALPA arrogance down pat.

Why should we get paid when we are sick? after all we add nothing to the company's bottom line.
Why should we even have a contract or seniority list? This restricts the company from making us more productive.

At the risk of sounding like PD....Who do you work for? and what's your agenda?

The LCA trip pulls is industry standard practice. The company will not budge on this one. The TA already got the best language in the industry vs AA and UAL. Especially with the amount of training coming up from growth and retirements. Most categories have 2-3% of total trips assigned OE. 75% 2-3% is not a big deal with the current movement in the company. 7,000 pilots will be gone in the the next 10 years and the company is growing simultaneously.

His first sentence says it all. Alpa wants an industry standard contract. If we TA this, we will not have one single section that is industry leading. Right now we have profit sharinf and sick leave. We will have numerous sections below industry standard including our retirement.

Look how quickly the ALPA drones pivoted from "historic... "to "world's best...." Now we're down to "industry standard." Could you imagine if RA told the shareholders his goal was an "industry standard" airline?

No wonder dalpa needs this high-pressure sales campaign.

Good post, Trip. But be prepared to be accused by Spackler of telling lies and accused by scambo of being a sellout!

I lived under the DAL B-scale. I'll throw it around. It's an abrogation of their seniority.

There are other ways to deal with this than the Company solution. As currently written it's a hose job to every FO.

Trip 7: "The LCA trip pulls is industry standard practice. The company will not budge on this one. The TA already got the best language in the industry vs AA and UAL. Especially with the amount of training coming up from growth and retirements. Most categories have 2-3% of total trips assigned OE. 75% 2-3% is not a big deal with the current movement in the company. 7,000 pilots will be gone in the the next 10 years and the company is growing simultaneously. "




No, I'll step up and call you a sell out. No need to wait for Carl.

If this was such a small number, why does the Company want it so badly? They just want the extra productivity. Plain and simple. DALPA wants to give it to them, too. To hell with our quality of life. It's all about productivity.

I'm a senior captain that won't be affected by this. I see it as a seniority grab and DALPA is the enabler.

Why should we not have better than industry standard? Why should we budge on this issue? The company came to us early while making record profits. I guess we can't tell them no. Reminds me of the girl in high school who couldn't tell any football players no. Are we that girl?

Who the hell are you? You have 14 posts. Go away.

Absolutely ridiculous! So now we are going to negotiate a contract based on companies who haven't even completed their mergers. They agreed to some horrible rules in order to get their Joint contract and bring them out of the stone age of bankruptcy.

We are an industry leader due to our sacrifices. We are well beyond where UAL/AA are in the cycle. Those companies are both larger and yet Delta's market cap is 20% greater than American and 41% greater than UAL based on Friday's close! When is enough, enough?

And for the love of GOD, stop with the 2% nonsense!! It is a boldfaced LIE!! Every FO is affected except for the plug. I know you get this along with all the other line towers. This is like a displaced pilot. You are arguing he is the only one affected when everyone knows the trickle down equals a decreased QOL for everyone on the list below him/her. You simply can't hold what you could hold prior to this TA. It is a HUGE give and it costs jobs!!

The ALPAholics do this from time to time. The Latest is this addict named Doug Madsen which plays off our solid poster here named Doug Masters. For a while they had a guy named Carl Spakler who rebutted me. They've also got Chuck Essential playing off our solid guy Check Essential.

The ALPAholics will stop at nothing to perpetuate the lies. They need a 12 step program. Let us give them step 1...vote this TA down.

Carl

What happened to industry leading?

So what if the company doesn't budge? Park us. We are not in a hurry.

Is that what you think this is about? Read the TA. It is not written to make FOs paired with LCA go fly, it's written so that when we are in the midst of a hiring binge you reduce the number of FOs required and GSs. It is a severe concession.

GO DAWGS!






That's a first. In my life. To ever say that. :D See what this is TA is doing. it's insanity. ;)

My guess is that LCPs are gonna be stuck with their trips once the schedules are out because they will be marked for IOEs. Not sure if it is all that good a deal for them either.

"Not budging" is not negotiating in good faith.

+ 1 on calling you a sell out.

I used to have a modicum of respect for you.

Funny how there are a lot of provisions the company "will not budge on." Which items did we hold a hard line on?

NO!

And let's say 2% is believable and reasonable (I disagree), I of course believe those supporting the LCA relief are entitled to their opinion. Wrong, but entitled!

But lets say 50% +1 of us are okay with it. What did we get in return? All the concessionary items in this TA are for Delta, and against the pilots. Then we self-funded much of the pay raise. Like others have said, pay concessions might be recoverable at later date (it seems we are failing to prove that notion), but all the other compromises, will be PERMANENT or serve as a lowering of the bar from which to COMPROMISE EVEN MORE next time.

Nothing in the TA is "no big deal."

(sorry for the teen-like use of caps, but I felt it on this one!)

No it is not. I'll let you do your own research and find out how wrong alpa is.

I don't know what got into me.





It's this damn TA I tell ya. If this upside down TA world where 100% only means 2% spreads to the rest of the world, we're screwed.

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We're screwed. It spread.

I couldn't even remotely bring myself to say "Roll Ti-" ugh. See? Can't do it.

Exactly right. Which is why (if that even happened) the response should have been laughter and: "That's awesome Richard...you funny guy" then leave an NMB card on the table.

Of course, that would have required real negotiators that don't cry.

Carl

That's damn good point Bender.

Why do they get to not negotiate in good faith but we have too?


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