JV settlement email
 

Here is a paragraph from the JV settlement email:


Since April 2012-April 2014 occur in both measurement periods, damages would be calculated only once for each year resulting in four distinct years of damages. As part of the settlement agreement, the $30 million paid by the Company cures the damages for those four years and therefore the Company would be considered to have been in minimum compliance for any future measurements that include those years. Using the 2013-16 measurement period, for example, would mean that the years April 2013-2014 and April 2014-2015 would have been treated as if they were in minimum compliance at 48.5% of the EASKs and any shortfall in the April 2015-2016 period would be subject to damages in any future grievance.

Is 2018 the earliest we can grieve again or 2019? Looks like our negotiators got schooled big time by the company on this one.

O M G

Just when you thought DALPA couldn't possibly exhibit any more incompetence.

Guys, we are getting ass pounded by the folks we're paying to protect us. When is enough, enough?

No. It looks like they delayed sending us the email as their final coup d' grace...

I do not understand how played we have been by our union...why??

If this doesn't get enough cards for the DPA nothing will.

well....if we are reading this correctly....and you go on the assumption they had full confidence the ta would pass...this makes perfect sense. the future non compliance would have been obe and so there would have been no need to except non compliance over the next 3 years.

this is so typical of the organizations inability to be proactive in accommodating anything they institutionally have determined 'cant happen'.

it may also explain the vehemence with which opposition to the ta was met.....as those inside realized a rejection would fully illuminate to all what fools they had been played for by management.

Yeah, it's real nice they sat on that one for a while. These guys just keep throwing gas on the fire.

What do you think the vote would have turned out like if we knew what we know now? JV settlement/China Air purchase/etc.

I'd go with 80/20. Would have been nice to have that extra leverage.

This email ****ed me off. The union points out the number of jobs that where taken away and makes it sound like 30 million is a great settlement.

I want to know how much money did Delta make being out of compliance? When we find that number, that's the dollar amount we want.

There should be ZERO monetary benefit for the company to breach our contract.

Agreed!

What would happen if 12,000 DAL pilots suddenly said "We're not going to honor our contract....we'll just not fly our last leg on our rotation".

The company would go ape-****** and would try to sue everyone involved.

The MEC, and the "shadow MEC" (the entrenched DALPA administration) just bent over and took pennies on the dollar for a CONTRACT VIOLATION.

http://replygif.net/i/114.gif

well im sure they would explain it to us not too smart line pilots as a simple 'mistake' on the part of the company.....

pilots using contractually authorized and earned sick leave is somehow decried by management and alpa rocket surgeons as despicable and 'abuse'.........while the willful violation of scope language by management results in what?

So does this end that "ALPA has the smartest lawyers ever" talk?

The worst part is that the administration lied to us. Numerous emails prior to this release stated emphatically that the settlement language had NO CHANGES to the existing contract language.

A flat out lie. They gave away a significant portion of leverage we had to achieve a great new contract. Stunned.

Carl

They all had to know. They all lied to us. Forget the reps selling the yes vote even the reps that voted no knew about this. They all need to go. We need to recall them all and start over. I feel like if someone has ever had any position at ALPA they need to fly the line for the rest of their careers. I was mad at the TA but we were betrayed with the JV settlement.

Agreed. I'm absolutely speechless at this.

Carl

There's more to come! Since the vote: record profits, more Rjs, GOL, Skymark, China Eastern, LGA remodel, JV email. Who's playing who? What's next? Virgin Atlantic space flight codeshare.

Don't forget the Delta Private Jets 'codeshare'

And that's just SINCE the vote. How about all the lies and obfuscation leading up to NA15? The sales job itself? The transgressions are too many to list.

When does it stop? Is there a DFR lawsuit in there? I think the AF/KLM settlement has got to be close.

What exactly is the argument for keeping ALPA on the property?

Makes me sick to see just how aligned DALPA was with Delta mgmt. It is almost like they are representing Delta mgmt. instead of the pilot group. Unbelievable. Donatelli is a disgrace.

I agree, and after reading the c48 update on chitchat I'm wondering if there is any hope for Dalpa at all:mad:

DALPA's been bent over with it's *** up in the air for so long it's sunburned.

The settlement has no changes to the existing contract language.

As usual, you make incredible unsubstantiated allegations.

The pilots wanted the grievance settlement handled separate from contract negotiations (the right call) and the company's noncompliance was resolved for $30,000,000. A settlement which we believe is the third largest in the Association's history and the largest on a scope grievance.

The matter of the scope grievance is resolved. The contract language remains in force and is currently in compliance on an EASK basis, meaning Delta is flying at least 48.5% of the Bundle 1 EASK. If the company goes out of compliance a cure period will begin 31 March 2016 and a grievance could be filed if a violation is documented 31 March 2017.

... and while we are on the topic of contract enforcement, recall that Tim Caplinger, interim leader of the DPA, is quoted as saying "“It’s completely optional for the company to comply with it if there’s no penalty for going out of compliance...” It is as if he is unaware of the Railway Labor Act.

Delta Strikes Pilot Deal to Keep Jobs From Outsourcing to Virgin - Bloomberg Business

Measurement window ends 31 March 2016. Then there is a cure period which would end 31 March 2017.

See reply to Carl above.

It is not codeshare. DPJ does not fly Delta code. Nor are DPJ flying any code, since these are not scheduled airlines.

DPJ is limited to 19 seats. Based on the response to the E190, Delta pilots are not that interested in flying airplanes with 90 to 100 seats in them.

For the record, I think anything branded as Delta should be flown by Delta pilots but that's my opinion which apparently is a minority view.

Tom Dilbeck

That's a bunch of garbage. Pilots don't buy airplanes.

You just don't get why the TA failed, do you? You have obviously gone all-in with the current regime. I just hope you don't do more damage than you already have with your disingenuous spin before you are purged when a new administration takes over.

Snowdawg,

Carl made a similar post a few weeks ago. Wonder who came up with the idea of basing penalties off of profitability? Seems to be a common idea in some parts.

My semi-educated guess is that Delta lost money on noncompliance. The JV (there were a lot of news stories on it at the time it was created which described it in general terms) is a revenue sharing arrangement. So lets say you and I started a business, agreeing to share the work and the income 50/50. But, after three years you discovered that you had been doing most of the work. Would you not them demand more of the money that you earned?

Generally speaking, that is what happened. The Europeans could not get out of the European market. They ended up doing more than their half and Delta had to pay AF/KLM/AZ for the extra work they did.

Delta looked at the market and decided it better to send their jets to places other than Europe ... and took the hit for diverting their labor away from a bad market towards a better market.

If you have information that the AF/KLM/AZ JV made a profit while in deficit ... please post your source. That data is not released that I've ever seen ... but my instincts tell me if there were money to be made in Europe Delta would have gone there and made it. Our network guys are some of the best on the planet at chasing down a buck, euro, yen .... etc.

Nobody fought harder to bring that flying to Delta than I. Here on APC & on Chit Chat it was called a "B Scale" even though it paid $15 an hour more than the highest 747 rate pre-merger and more than the 7ER left seat prior to C2012.

Overall, it did not seem pilots had much enthusiasm for the type. Even among guys I worked with on the Compass resolutions.

... and I will continue to work for improved scope & more flying for Delta pilots until "purged" as you say.

OK, I wasn't there, but are you telling me that 2008 747A pay was at $162/hr?

If that's true, it was wrong then and no matter where you stand on this TA, it's nothing I want to compare any of our future pay rates against... A 190B 12yr shouldn't be that low.

1/1/2011 747 A $186.46
1/1/2018 E190 A $200.14

Yes, seven years is a difference and cost of living has increased, but the 747 is a heck of a lot more airplane.

My concerns are more in line with Delta pilots doing Delta flying. Scope has to be engineered for worst case scenarios and in a worst case, those E190's would be far preferable to furlough.

The union forgave the company for being out of compliance for 2013 and 2014. Everything before 31 March 2015 was forgiven. So the three year measurement window just started again. Read the JV settlement email that the union sent out. I copied the paragraph in question for the first post of this thread.

You'd think the chairman of the scope committee (Dilbeck) would know that.

The contract specifies a rolling three year measure. So, by my reading years April 13 to 14 & 14 to 15 are 48.5% making the company compliant in exchange for $30,000,000. Then, measures for the remainder of 2015 are whatever they will be. The JV portion of the Scope Analysis briefing in August will have graphs which might help you to visualize the math & metrics on compliance.

Again, it really is preferable to ask questions and let your Reps refer the question to Contract Admin for resolution to your satisfaction.

Thanks for the insight. That's now how I understood it but that would make it a lot better. I still think it was a mistake but better than what I thought.

The company paid for the bad years, which will now be treated as good years for the purpose of the rolling window. My gut feel is a cool 30 mil bought them another 4 years of non-compliance.

OK, you meant post-bankruptcy, not pre-merger rates.

And why would we compare anything to post-bankruptcy pay rates?

E190s sure would be preferable to furlough (although what you're really saying is that they'd be preferable to furlough for you... the pilots flying those at the time of bankruptcy of course would be furloughed).

But we have no say as to whether DAL buys airplanes. If they're good for business under the proposed TA, they're good for business under C2012. For goodness sakes, they're actually even better for business under C2012 now that the company doesn't have to pay that $1.1B more in pilot costs... oh nevermind.

Though if the E190 order was indeed cancelled because there is no pay scale for them, are we also canceling the A350 order?

That's what I think. According to that other guy we can still grieve it. I guess we would get 10 mil next year. And 2015 would then be forgiven. So every year we will get ten mil and they will forgive every year. I hope I am wrong because this is stupid.

As the letter pointed out and backed up with hard numbers we are talking about 20 crews a year. The company is now expected to be in compliance for 2016 so any award for that year may be moot.

..... and????

30/4=7.5 (... not really relevant because one would have to update for pay and the degree of noncompliance)

Compliance up to 31 March 2015 was bought. We are in year three of a three year measure from 31 March 2013 to 31 March 2016 now. From 31 March 2013 to 31 March 2015, 48.5% goes in the 3 year rolling equation. From 31 March this year to 31 March 2016 the data will be whatever it will be. If out of compliance, then there is a cure period from 31 March 2016 to 31 March 2017. If in violation, a grievance could be filed 1 April 2017.

The 7ER rates were current book. 7/1/12 ER paid $196.52 ... $3.62 less than the E190 1/1/2018