MSP Council 1 Meeting
08-25-2015, 09:08 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: B737 CA
Posts: 1,518
Reposted from chitchat:
I liveblogged the meeting for the Widget Pilot TA/Contract Discussion group, and while I won't post all my entries here, I'll go back and summarize for those who missed the meeting.
I arrived just before 10am, there was about 15 pilots in line ahead of me to check in, submit proxies, and receive ballots; quite a few pilots arrived after me as well, and the meeting didn't get started until 10:30am. At that point I counted 77 pilots in attendance, plus the 3 reps. Jon Lewis spoke first, said we'd go straight to new business since that's why most were here. His tone was very somber, he explained the procedure and asked for professionalism, said that anyone who got ugly would be asked to leave. After the reading of the resolution it was motioned and seconded, and the floor was opened for debate.
In all 17 pilots spoke: 8 in favor, 8 against, and 1 who didn't voice an opinion but simply asked Bruce if he had full access to the results of the survey from 7 months ago. Those against spoke of Bruce's non-voting status and of his past ALPA work, voiced a belief that opposing opinions on the MEC are healthy, stated that we are creating a climate in which reps are afraid to speak their mind and vote their conscience, and pointed out that there was no movement to recall 2012 MSP reps though constituents voted differently. Several did voice their appreciation for the newly engaged pilot group, one suggested that if we'd been so engaged all along we wouldn't be here. Those who spoke for the resolution said it wasn't personal, it's business, that they appreciated Bruce's service, that he had drifted too far from the wishes of the MSP pilot group, that even though he was non-voting status he did have influence on the MEC, that they didn't appreciate the sales job, and/or they felt they should have three reps pulling in the same direction. 3 of the pilots who spoke said they are within the ALPA committee structure (all against recall) and I recognized another two who I believe are ALPA volunteers as well.
After the floor debate, Eric Hall spoke against recall. He said he'd known Bruce since 2006, that Bruce was the reason he got into ALPA work, and that while he was personally against recall, he wouldn't tell anyone how to vote. He said that Bruce has done great work representing individual pilots and has saved at least one pilot's job, and doesn't think his stance on the TA is enough to merit recall. He said there hasn't been a single MEC meeting in which he [Eric] didn't lean on Bruce (or Jon) for insight. He's been around and knows the lay of the land. The real problem, in Eric's opinion, was the roadshow and P2P sales job - which will be addressed before the next TA. He said that as reps, we are given the privilege of expressing opinions and shouldn't be afraid to do so. He and Bruce had done a lot of government affairs work, and through that had an appreciation for the value of opposing opinions.
Jon Lewis did not speak for or against recall. From his tone, I got the feeling he was against. During his opening remarks he noted that they had gone back to the original requester of the recall meeting and tried to see if there wasn't another option but he still wanted to go through with it. When the vote was announced Jon was visibly shaken.
Bruce spoke last. He opened by thanking everyone for coming and expressing a wish that they had such high attendance at every LEC meeting. He then addressed some of the specific points raised by the previous pilots who spoke in favor of recall. He strongly rejected the idea that he was condescending or that he sold the TA. He said he saw his job as both education and advocacy, and he advocated his position in exactly the same manner that Jon and Eric advocated theirs. He said the two main reasons for his vote were that he believes something is better than nothing, and he believed the company when they said there was nothing left on the table. He noted his negotiating experience as a member of a school board, noted that it's similar to a game of high-stakes poker, and in his opinion the company wasn't bluffing. He said that many pilots believe that DL will come back with a better offer, he's pessimistic because he thinks it would result in the other employee groups organizing. Said other employee groups would get a raise before end of year to avoid triggering 3B4 and a bonus the year after once 3B5 expires. Only glimmer of hope is the FedEx TA; says if management is truly committed to making us the best-paid in industry, FedEx contract may raise possibility of gains over the rejected TA. He concluded by saying that he was pessimistic about avoiding mediation, wouldn't blow smoke, and if the pilots didn't want the truth they'd best take him out of office.
Someone in the back of the room noted that the contract wasn't even expired yet, so why the hurry to get a new deal even if it's subpar. Bruce actually said that he somewhat agreed and the TA didn't meet his own expectations, which brought some guffaws and rejoinders. At that point there was a fairly lengthy back and forth about the TA. Bruce expressed the opinion that many pilots were misinformed about the TA and stated that most he talked to still thought that medical records could be turned over to a third party, and that the profit sharing conversion was a bad deal. He went into a pretty lengthy (and completely unprovoked) explanation of how you could never make less money under the TA under any plausible profit sharing scenario...to general groans and mutters of "yes, yes, we know that...." Finally the back and forth was getting tiresome and someone made the motion to vote, which Bruce readily agreed to.
The pilots came to the front of the room and put their ballots in one of two envelopes, "For" or "Against." Eric Hall and several ALPA nat'l guys took them out to count. Meanwhile Jon Lewis went through Contract Admin & Scheduling reports. After about 40 mins the results came back and were announced, 98 in favor and 62 opposed. Jon explained the council-wide electronic recall election that would take place, and then resumed the committee reports.
The crowd thinned pretty rapidly after the vote was announced but roughly 25 remained to the end, and for the last hour and a half or so there was a very interesting, wide-ranging and candid conversation with all three reps about the leadup to the TA, the subsequent vote, the policy manual and process, behavior of the NC, dynamics on the MEC, upcoming MEC CH and NC elections, what they thought of next candidates, reforms needed to be made, etc. The crowd was very engaged and asked some really excellent questions. Bruce appeared to take the vote pretty well and remained engaged in the discussion, and his viewpoint on most things really wasn't that far off from Jon and Eric's. All three repeatedly voiced their amazement at the degree to which the pilot group has woken up and become engaged in such a short time. I didn't take very comprehensive notes of this portion of the meeting as my computer battery was nearly dead.
Meeting was adjourned at 2:30.
I liveblogged the meeting for the Widget Pilot TA/Contract Discussion group, and while I won't post all my entries here, I'll go back and summarize for those who missed the meeting.
I arrived just before 10am, there was about 15 pilots in line ahead of me to check in, submit proxies, and receive ballots; quite a few pilots arrived after me as well, and the meeting didn't get started until 10:30am. At that point I counted 77 pilots in attendance, plus the 3 reps. Jon Lewis spoke first, said we'd go straight to new business since that's why most were here. His tone was very somber, he explained the procedure and asked for professionalism, said that anyone who got ugly would be asked to leave. After the reading of the resolution it was motioned and seconded, and the floor was opened for debate.
In all 17 pilots spoke: 8 in favor, 8 against, and 1 who didn't voice an opinion but simply asked Bruce if he had full access to the results of the survey from 7 months ago. Those against spoke of Bruce's non-voting status and of his past ALPA work, voiced a belief that opposing opinions on the MEC are healthy, stated that we are creating a climate in which reps are afraid to speak their mind and vote their conscience, and pointed out that there was no movement to recall 2012 MSP reps though constituents voted differently. Several did voice their appreciation for the newly engaged pilot group, one suggested that if we'd been so engaged all along we wouldn't be here. Those who spoke for the resolution said it wasn't personal, it's business, that they appreciated Bruce's service, that he had drifted too far from the wishes of the MSP pilot group, that even though he was non-voting status he did have influence on the MEC, that they didn't appreciate the sales job, and/or they felt they should have three reps pulling in the same direction. 3 of the pilots who spoke said they are within the ALPA committee structure (all against recall) and I recognized another two who I believe are ALPA volunteers as well.
After the floor debate, Eric Hall spoke against recall. He said he'd known Bruce since 2006, that Bruce was the reason he got into ALPA work, and that while he was personally against recall, he wouldn't tell anyone how to vote. He said that Bruce has done great work representing individual pilots and has saved at least one pilot's job, and doesn't think his stance on the TA is enough to merit recall. He said there hasn't been a single MEC meeting in which he [Eric] didn't lean on Bruce (or Jon) for insight. He's been around and knows the lay of the land. The real problem, in Eric's opinion, was the roadshow and P2P sales job - which will be addressed before the next TA. He said that as reps, we are given the privilege of expressing opinions and shouldn't be afraid to do so. He and Bruce had done a lot of government affairs work, and through that had an appreciation for the value of opposing opinions.
Jon Lewis did not speak for or against recall. From his tone, I got the feeling he was against. During his opening remarks he noted that they had gone back to the original requester of the recall meeting and tried to see if there wasn't another option but he still wanted to go through with it. When the vote was announced Jon was visibly shaken.
Bruce spoke last. He opened by thanking everyone for coming and expressing a wish that they had such high attendance at every LEC meeting. He then addressed some of the specific points raised by the previous pilots who spoke in favor of recall. He strongly rejected the idea that he was condescending or that he sold the TA. He said he saw his job as both education and advocacy, and he advocated his position in exactly the same manner that Jon and Eric advocated theirs. He said the two main reasons for his vote were that he believes something is better than nothing, and he believed the company when they said there was nothing left on the table. He noted his negotiating experience as a member of a school board, noted that it's similar to a game of high-stakes poker, and in his opinion the company wasn't bluffing. He said that many pilots believe that DL will come back with a better offer, he's pessimistic because he thinks it would result in the other employee groups organizing. Said other employee groups would get a raise before end of year to avoid triggering 3B4 and a bonus the year after once 3B5 expires. Only glimmer of hope is the FedEx TA; says if management is truly committed to making us the best-paid in industry, FedEx contract may raise possibility of gains over the rejected TA. He concluded by saying that he was pessimistic about avoiding mediation, wouldn't blow smoke, and if the pilots didn't want the truth they'd best take him out of office.
Someone in the back of the room noted that the contract wasn't even expired yet, so why the hurry to get a new deal even if it's subpar. Bruce actually said that he somewhat agreed and the TA didn't meet his own expectations, which brought some guffaws and rejoinders. At that point there was a fairly lengthy back and forth about the TA. Bruce expressed the opinion that many pilots were misinformed about the TA and stated that most he talked to still thought that medical records could be turned over to a third party, and that the profit sharing conversion was a bad deal. He went into a pretty lengthy (and completely unprovoked) explanation of how you could never make less money under the TA under any plausible profit sharing scenario...to general groans and mutters of "yes, yes, we know that...." Finally the back and forth was getting tiresome and someone made the motion to vote, which Bruce readily agreed to.
The pilots came to the front of the room and put their ballots in one of two envelopes, "For" or "Against." Eric Hall and several ALPA nat'l guys took them out to count. Meanwhile Jon Lewis went through Contract Admin & Scheduling reports. After about 40 mins the results came back and were announced, 98 in favor and 62 opposed. Jon explained the council-wide electronic recall election that would take place, and then resumed the committee reports.
The crowd thinned pretty rapidly after the vote was announced but roughly 25 remained to the end, and for the last hour and a half or so there was a very interesting, wide-ranging and candid conversation with all three reps about the leadup to the TA, the subsequent vote, the policy manual and process, behavior of the NC, dynamics on the MEC, upcoming MEC CH and NC elections, what they thought of next candidates, reforms needed to be made, etc. The crowd was very engaged and asked some really excellent questions. Bruce appeared to take the vote pretty well and remained engaged in the discussion, and his viewpoint on most things really wasn't that far off from Jon and Eric's. All three repeatedly voiced their amazement at the degree to which the pilot group has woken up and become engaged in such a short time. I didn't take very comprehensive notes of this portion of the meeting as my computer battery was nearly dead.
Meeting was adjourned at 2:30.
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