we read the TA. We analyzed the TA and voted accordingly.

But we are considered stupid by dalpa insiders because we didn't believe their PowerPoint slides over what was actually written in the TA.

No. You left out the part where you wrote "even though the real improvements over C2012 were only 8%."

That's a lie.

It is not. If there is a lie it is 21.5% increase in rates. 8/6/3/3 becomes 8/0/3/3 when PS is subtracted. C2012 provides for industry average increases, which will result in 0/3/3 at a minimum after the amendable date.

Explain this part in red to me.

3B4

Go ahead and discount it, I'll explain. Management wanted 3B4 and 3I changed to end its effectiveness going forward because it was already ineffective, right?

Sigh. They didn't want it changed. That language remained in TA2015 as it was in C2012. It will very likely have no effect on us. I expect the company to give the non contract employees a decent raise this fall (no effect for us), and I further expect that it will not be triggered in 2016 or 2017. That turns your 0/3/3 into 0/0/0.

If you were told otherwise, you were lied to.

Sigh. It changed, that's what all the strikeouts and red text are for. Perhaps you didn't read or understand it.

It has already had an effect and will in the future.

Here's a copy. It's on the page immediately following the pay tables.

http://nebula.wsimg.com/2c2f83bd233a...&alloworigin=1

You're correct. It changed to include a profit sharing component. I had forgotten that part. Thanks for the correction. (See how east that was PD and FTB). It does not, however, change the fact that under the current language, if the company gives the non-contract employees a raise between now and the end of the year, we get nothing. And if the company decides to give them bonuses next year instead of raise, we get nothing. Check with your own reps, but what I heard was that management told the negotiating committee 3B4 would not be triggered.

In short, you are still at 0/0/0 in your argument.

OK, lets see how this will go. Yes, I heard management said... as well. Here is the C2012 language that applies to the situation.

Section 3 B. 4: If, during any consecutive rolling 18-month period, the Company grants an acrossthe-board increase in base pay rates to non-pilot U.S.-based workgroups covering 30% or more of its non-pilot U.S.-based workforce, then a review of pilot composite hourly rates will be triggered. If, as a result of that review, it is determined that, as of the date the review was triggered, the Delta top-of-scale 757 Captain composite hourly rate is less than 100% of the average of the top-of-scale 757 Captain hourly domestic day rates at United and American, the pilot composite hourly rates will be increased (except as provided in Section 3 B. 4. Note). The amount of increase will be the lesser of the percentage difference between the Delta top-of-scale 757 Captain composite hourly rate and 100% of the top-of-scale average 757 Captain hourly domestic day rates at United and American, or the average percentage increase (except as provided in Section 3 B. 4. Note) granted to the non-pilot U.S.-based workgroups of the Company. Any percentage increase due the pilots will be effective as of the date of the increase that triggered the review.
Note: Base pay rates for non-pilot U.S. – based workgroups will only be considered to have increased to the extent they exceed the rates in effect on July 1, 2012. Should an increase for non-pilot U.S.-based workgroups exceed the base pay rates in effect on July 1, 2012, then only the percentage by which such an increase exceeds the applicable July 1, 2012, base pay rates will be considered in the calculation of the percentage increase that may be applied to pilot composite hourly rates.

Following 1/1/2016 management will give at least a 3% pay raise at some point, but the timeline is up to them. This is why I say 0 in 2016 and 3/3 in the following years.

The 3 percent is the calculation based on AA and UA 2016 and then 2017 raises. We already have a precedent or proof of concept from 4/1/2015.

Why will they give at least 3%?

A raise to other employees triggers a review. That's what happened in April. If they give the other employees a raise before the end of the year, the review will trigger no raise, because the review has already been done (in April) to bring us up to the UAL/AAL metric. All the company has to do is give the other employees a raise this calendar year and make it a bonus in 2017 and/or 2017, and we get nothing.