Take the ALPA contract survey
 

Take the survey. You are an idiot if you don't. No matter what you say what's important is participation. We showed a 97% participation in the last TA vote. We need to show the company we are engaged and not willing to let our fight for restoration die. Have you guys seen the 2004 payrates? Well if you haven't you should look them up... there's a thread on chit chat with them posted, maybe someone can post them here... you'd be disgusted.

Take the survey. It does matter. The time is now to push for what we gave up 11 years ago. Don't be a puss. Do it.

Tail

I agree, stay involved. There are a few areas on they survey to comment and make your position know.

The rates are posted here:

theonlineroadshow.com

I did...albeit a bit begrudgingly.

Numerous reminders were left on not repeating the sales job in the comments.

Pay rates are nice but I always thought what was more important was the total taxable amount at the end of the year. I made 25% more under contract 2012 than I did in 2004. I flew roughly the same 970 hard hours and my pay rate was similar as I moved up in equipment (76ER to 777) but everything else was equal. Pay rates are very important but they aren't everything. There is lots of dinero to be found outside of pay rates.

Notice the survey only mentions DECREASING or TRADING profit sharing/sick leave/work rules.

Here's something to blow everyone's mind: What if we actually lobbied for an INCREASE in profit sharing/sick leave/work rules?!

I only mention it to highlight the concessionary tone being set here. I also don't agree with forcing every pilot to answer "Do you think the company would ever agree to XYZ?" because it implies that the person asking the question (the MEC) thinks that the company would not.

Is there a way to insert gifs?

http://static.tumblr.com/gc5ysvp/vwy...rn_it_down.gif

:D



No. Seriously. I will do it. As soon as I can but I'm studying for CQ.


















































Which really means I'm just cleaning my room. And after that, I'll find something else to do.

I am leaning towards 8/6/3/3.

And lots, and lots, and lots, and lots of soft money and staffing increases. Save face and all. I'm looking for ways to do it. :D

8/6/3/3
Training paid 5:15 per day
Vacation day worth 5:15
Extra vacation week
Per diem increased by $2 domestic, $2.50 international plus 3% annual increases
Sick leave stays the same (maybe no GS on footprint of original sick leave trip)
Increase in DC plan
LCA trips stay in bid pack with recovery flying subject to report/release rules and gets paid as a WS above the dropped trip (GS if a GS went out junior to the released pilot)

Read this to get an understanding of the current environment before you take the survey. Remember with weak PRASM over the last 6 months, Delta produced the highest ever industry profits. As PRASM recovers profitability grows and is sustainable without low cost fuel.

Delta Air Lines, Inc. Gets Closer to a Revenue Recovery -- The Motley Fool

See if you see where I fixed it for you. After we achieve all this, then we can talk about proactive engagement. Until then, RESTORATION plus inflation plus retirement.

TEN

Great corrections.

PS was intentionally left out of my list. It's not something I'm comfortable trading for a pay rate increase. It may be worth a partial exchange of PS for a variable annuity in MY NAME, invested in a mix of equity index funds that I control. Again, it must not be traded for pay rates.

Back to the Survey Topic
 

While I agree that participation is important, please realize the survey serves a dual purpose. 100% pilot involvement shows management the pilot group is heavily engaged in securing meaningful gains. The secondary purpose is a clear management of expectations by DALPA. The survey reaches everyone who clicks on the link. It subtly conveys that we must make concessions in multiple areas. Google the term "push polling".

Post-Retirement Annuity
 

Since the annuity question is in the survey and pilots bring it up in different threads, I'm going to ask a question that has not been answered to my satisfaction. 415C limits effectively cap tax-differed contributions to our defined contribution plan. Even at current pay rates, most captains and many first officers who contribute employee maximums will hit the $53,000 annual contribution limit. How would a company-provided, post-retirement annuity be treated by the IRS? Can an annuity plan be crafted that would not detract from the existing DC plan? It would be useful to fully understand the implications prior to answering the survey question.

My military retirement did not stop accruing while I hit the 415c limit at dal. In truth I don't know the answer. But, it seems to me the two are decoupled, ref fedex and American.

It would have to be in the company's name/control to avoid the IRS issues, I think.

We all know how well that worked out last time. No thanks. I'd rather take a tax hit now and keep the company out of it. $1 for me and $1 for the govt is better than $2 controlled by the company.

How about GSA published per diem rates on all trips. That avoids tax issues and doesn't show up as hourly pay rate for contract comparison. The only downside is for the FPL gang...

The company could fully fund our HSA/HRA accounts which are nice to have in retirement..

That would be huge

So 5.15 per day for vacation and training.
Fully funded HSA's/HRA's.


I'm going to do the math. I just want for curiosity's sake to see what happens if you do 8/6/3/3, same PS PLUS monkey with the soft money if you can get to 1987 x 30 years of COLA.

You do realize an HSA is vastly different from an HRA? HSA you will have in retirement. My understanding of the HRA is that, once you are no longer in that plan (retirement), you will lose your HRA dollars. Funds in an HRA stay with the company when the employee leaves.

Denny

+1. This is a great way to go.

I'm personally in the silver HSA. Pilots currently have a choice between the two, the company could fully fund either. That is something we would not have to claim as income, which is nice. We each make choices as to which plan is right for us based on our own circumstance.

I am silver HSA too and I would definitely like to see the company fully fund the HSA.

But, off the top of my head, there are a couple of problems that would have to be overcome. 1. We all would like our HSA to be "fully funded." Unfortunately "fully funded" can mean different amounts to each of us depending on whether we are single, married with kids etc. 2. What is a "fully funded" HRA? I don't know.

Yes we do make choices that are right for our own individual circumstances. I was just saying that there is a huge difference between an HSA vs an HRA. One would want to use up every dollar in an HRA before retirement whereas this is not true for an HSA.

I'm sure we all would want this funding to be fair and equitable for all. I'm just saying it would be a lot more difficult to actually implement fairly than to say "let's just fully fund them."

Denny

I haven't researched this but just put a set amount in that's above the worst case scenario for a pilot. So for a single pilot with no dependents or a really good and busy Catholic :D, they get the same. One will have more money there in retirement but both recieve equal amounts.

Let's take a average pilot that makes $190/hr and say he flies 16.5 days a month which would put him right around the 87 credit hours per month (an alpa provided number). A total of $198360 per year.

Under the failed Moakie TA2015 he'd gotten a 8% raise, or $15,868 over the year and let's say that year is in a vacuum and not taking into account a Jan 1 raise and changes in PS which are a yuge factor.

Now let's say in a Malonie TA2016 we negotiate:
+ 8/6/3/3 raise.
+ $10K per pilot for the HSA.
+ 36:45 per week of vacation instead of 22:75 x 4 weeks which adds 56 hours
+ 10:30 for recurrent instead of 7:30, a 5:15 bump per year based on 1.75 events per year.

So in year 1 the pilot still flies 16.57 days per month, makes $205.20/hour after the 8% raise. If I'm right, said pilot will make $10K for HSA, $11,491 more for vacation, $1,077 for training, a total of $38,437 in additional pay over C2012 pay and $22K over TA2015.

THEN, we drop all of the TA2015 scope "improvements", profit sharing "improvements", sick leave "improvements" and work rule "improvements" and call it a day. And that way, we help the company save face because we kept the pay increase but none of the conc... improvements. So the new contract was "worse" than TA2015 just as DALPA and Management had promised us. I mean, those were all sold as improvements, right? So let's just give up those "improvements".

Mark this up over 4 years and we've got ourselves $22k/$24k/$26K/$27K more pay over the much better TA2015 for the same 8/6/3/3. Basically, a 10% increase over TA2015. And that's before we take into account any of our concessions for not taking the "improvements". Concessions like more WB flying, more staffing, more profit sharing, and so on.





You're welcome. A 19% increase in year 1 for you petulant anti-establishmentarian restorationists.

I guess much of your post is a bit "tongue in cheek," but I'll point out a couple of issues with it:

1) HSAs have contribution limits. For 2016 they are (thank you random internet site for the following): "HSA holders can choose to save up to $3,350 for an individual and $6,750 for a family (HSA holders 55 and older get to save an extra $1,000 which means $4,350 for an individual and $7,750 for a family) - and these contributions are 100% tax deductible from gross income."

2) I don't want to fly 16.57 days per month, thank you very much.

3) We're not in the business of "saving face" for Delta. We were violated in bankruptcy and disrespected in C2015 TA1. Saving face is the furthest thing from my mind!

Otherwise, I get the gist of what you're saying.

There is a lot of tongue and cheek. But unfortunately come to the 717, 16 days on buys you a line at less than 87. Less days on and you probably won't have a line since 92% of the trips have been four day trips or five. So pick your favorite four 21 hour four day trips or you're preferred off reserve days. One or the other.

As to the HSA... We'll pocket the rest for life insurance, dental, etc. :D

As to the save face thing, I'm hearing it. I think it's going to be a common thing we hear. So I'm going to hVe fun with it.

That's true for most narrow-body fleets. Productivity has already decimated the bid packages. The constant quest for 0 credit time results in a longer average trip length. Which is why so many more people manipulate their schedules daily.

That's also a reason for more sick time usage. Every time you call in sick its 21 hours min. Not 5:15 or 10:30 to get over the flu/cold.

Maximizing tax exempt money is the most efficient way to go. If we had a 20% retirement those over the retirement contribution limit could still direct pay into an HSA account. I would guess those over the limit could also take advantage of the catch-up contributions.

If we could max out life insurance, then there would be more incentive for the "Mrs. Timbo's" of the world to take out their husbands.

If they do that, we move up a number.

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/...20130512183446


#thinking2stepsahead

We are solving problems here. It's a tradition we have as pilots.

Just like when the company comes to say we want more 76-seaters but the language in the contract requires we grow the fleet by 80 or more airplanes and we have to park 70-seaters. That's no bueno. We want more 76-seaters and everything we already have. Oh and we need a way to get DCI carriers to give up 50-seater obligations.

Do you have a better solution ALPA?

You do? Well, that's great. And since you can solve that, how about a way to end sick abuse? Oh, and we can't hire enough people, got a solution to that too? Pilots. Problem solvers.

Kind of like the mom who joked "hey, I'm going on a cruise, and I need to lose weight. But I don't want to exercise or go on a diet. So what are my options?"

http://fatfightertv.com/wp-content/u...2/06/spanx.jpg

we have to stop talking about 8/6/3/3.... IMHO, a very paltry set of numbers.

Bring the numbers up. No concessions. Better work rules.

TEN

its now 14/3/3 (8+6) and don't touch PS

American and RESTORATION both are 18% on 1/1/2016.

That's true, 14/3/3.

Am I missing something??? Maybe I am not reading this correct but you guys are ok with 14/3/3???

TEN

That would be the percentage to match the TA rates on 1/1/2016. That would probably pass if you just put those rates into C2012 and be done. RESTORATION is still the objective.

Ok, then I already know what I am voting!:mad:

TEN

Survey complete. I said I want more days away from home at less pay, with only company approved sick leave (two months notice), one week of February vacation, and 15 short calls for my 25 days on reserve. No layovers at hotels if a Motel 6 is within pleasant walking distance to gas station. I'm trying to keep my back pack on.

are probies suppose to take the survey?

Your manstache is about to grow strong. :D

You are definitely Herndon material ;)