Airline Pilot Central Forums - 3B4 Kiss at midnight

Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)

- Delta (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/)

- - 3B4 Kiss at midnight (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/92488-3b4-kiss-midnight.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Check Essential (Post 2049062)

That's what the rolling 18 months is there for. Keeps the company from granting raises to less than 30% at different times to avoid 3B4.
Whenever they grant a raise it triggers an 18 month look back to see if 30% have received raises. They certainly will meet that threshold.

The question will be whether a previously agreed to contractual increase constitutes "granting an across the board increase".

I see what you are saying and agree with you. The company granted the raise when they signed the contract. I think in this case we should file on 1 APR if the company does not grant the raise. I am somewhat surprised the company did not offer the Dec raise to the dispatchers in return for giving up the Apr raises.

When does the UA TA vote end? Isn't the next meeting scheduled with mgmt after that closes?

I've heard from various sources that mgmt is keenly watching how that goes as to how negotiations will go forward with us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 2049088)

UAL vote closes on Jan 22, not sure what time of day though, and our next meeting with mgt is on Jan 29.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 2048855)

I have to give credit where credit is due. Jim is working with integrity and despite his gaffe, his openness and interaction with the pilot group is a noteworthy breath of fresh air. That will never go out of style or be overcome by technology. He isn't hiding and he is writing.

His recollection error is just that, a human error...it is misinformation due to his signature block but, IMO, not significant enough to say he or p2p is obsolete.

Agree on all counts. My perception of the P2P program being obsolete is not due to his honest mistake here. He's a great dude. I just think the concept is unnecessary and overpriced for what we get

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 2049094)

UAL vote closes on Jan 22, not sure what time of day though, and our next meeting with mgt is on Jan 29.

That's what I thought on the UAL vote. I think the timing of the next meeting is absolutely intentional.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 2049094)

UAL vote closes on Jan 22, not sure what time of day though, and our next meeting with mgt is on Jan 29.

Our voting ends at 10am EST on the 22nd. One of the webinars said we'd have the results that day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maddogflier (Post 2048971)

I don't think 100 dispatchers will be 30% of the US workforce.

No, but more than 30% have had raises in a rolling 18 months on that date. I think their membership is like 380. They may also get a raise the following April 1, 2017. If you look 18 months back from that date the Dec. 1 2015 raise is also within 18 months in 2017.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Check Essential (Post 2049062)

Unless the company did a quiet deal with PAFCA mid-contract in 2015. Anyone have a dispatcher friend? In that case my backpack would be to heavy to carry and I may need a sick day for the emotional distress caused by the complete and premeditated betrayal which shows the full effort being used against the pilot group after commending us for our professionalism and performance excellence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by notEnuf (Post 2049232)

The potential grievances are piling up.

We'll see what management has to say on the 29th.

I agree. That backpack is getting mighty heavy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scoop (Post 2048905)

I am not sure about this. 3B4 consists of two parts:

1. A triggering event - a raise to other employees.
2. An industry comparison. Used to be with a few airlines, but due to mergers just looks at some kind of blended 757 CAPT rate with UAL and AMR.

If UAL passes their TA we will definitely be behind UAL and AMR in pay-rates but we still need a triggering event.

I read the language and it talks about a rolling 18 month window. IMHO this is the problem - loose contractual language that is not clear. We can argue that the 01DEC15 raise to the non-contracts is the trigger but the company will certainly argue that it is not a trigger.

I personally think us winning a 3B4 is a crap-shoot at best, and certainly not a fait accompli.

Scoop

I agree this is not a fait accompli. This is however a duty of our union to apply and defend our contract and its administration under C2012. If that benefits our negotiating position that would be an opportunistic benefit. We are operating under C2012 and may be for some time. We may eventually have another CBA if the PWA is not vigorously defended. The original intent of the language written 12 years ago can not be dismissed. The application of this key benefit will be noticeable and applicable near the end of the PWA around the amendable date because it continues to raise pay rates during negotiations. In effect it removes the time penalty of the RLA.

This language is something I'm sure management has subject matter experts pouring over. Obviously they have identified 3B4 as a problem needing to be addressed. This language much like profit sharing, if changed or removed will permanently alter its benefit for the future. Once its gone it will never return.