Florida Commutes
 

Ok newb to the airlines and I'm learning the commuting gig. I have the wife and kids game for a move but they want to move back to Florida. How tough is the commute to Atlanta and/or NYC from Tampa? I know there are 12+ flights a day to Atlanta but is it crazy hard? Same goes with NYC but I'm an 88 guy and the trips in NYC are too hard to commute to/from. The tax advantages and friends in the area make a compelling case over Atlanta and NYC.

Thanks in advance

A ton of guys do it so.....it's doable. Just be prepped noon eastern 5 days prior....

I fly with a lot of guys who live in the Tampa area, from what they say it doesn't seem awful.

stop for a minute.....and imagine what your options would be with NO JS, and NO non rev privileges.

Ummm. I don't understand your point

ask some of the captains you are going to be flying with....im sure they will be able to tell you about it.

PM sent...

I think he's referring to how some of us had to commute when we were new hires 30 years ago. I commuted MIA-BOS for my first year, mostly on Eastern's jump seats. Delta didn't' allow us to use the jump seat for commuting until 1996, and back in the 1980s', you got one S3 pass first year as a new hire, 2 per year your second year, etc. until you had completed 5 years, then you got unlimited passes... for a $8 fee, each leg. In about 1992, the company doubled the fee to $16 per leg. The union grieved it and won, I got a check for about $178 after commuting BOS-CVG for a year, paying the doubled fee.


BUT... back in the mid 80's-90's, we had so many small bases spread around the country there were not too many commuters. We had pilot bases at (in no particular order) BOS, MIA/FLL, ORD, IAH, DFW, MSY, PDX, and I'm probably forgetting a few.

About the only guys who commuted were senior Captains trying to increase their final average earnings in their last 3 years, and they did that by commuting to ATL to fly the L10-11 to Europe.

I've been commuting from MCO to ATL and NYC for the past 19 years, it's do able but it's very busy too. If you are not on the phone booking your seat at T-0, it will be booked by someone else, no doubt. MCO to JFK you have Jet Blue for a backup, and they have saved my bacon a couple times.

As you've seen many of the NYC MD88 trips are 'uncommutable' due to early sign in and late releases. So pick your poison carefully.

TPA/ATL on S3 is difficult.

What about DAB or MLB or Sanford?

I did TPA-JFK for a couple years, 90% of the time I flew jetblue and I never missed a commute. That being said, I had a buddy's login to check loads AND, at the time offline pilots could sit in the flight attendant jumpseat, which I did often. They no longer allow this. I moved to a base 6 years ago, and although i'd rather be in FL, my life is EASY. Wife is happy, and I have much more free time. Don't commute unless you absolutely have to or you're single.

One other thing. As a domestic narrow body pilot, count on over ONE MONTH of extra nights on the road per year, unpaid, sleeping in some crappy hotel away from your family. Another cost of commuting.

Tampa-ATL has gotten much tougher post- AirTran. Commuting sucks. Don't do it, especially if you have/want kids.

It's a whole new kind of suck, hoping the commute works out as the baby's due date approaches.

Did the MCO commute to ORD and IAD and LAX.....finally just moved to a base (IAH) and my job is 200% better with no commute to worry about....Reserve is a breeze, line holder flying is like a part time job.

It took me 15 years to figure it out....commuting sucks!

Don't know, never done it from anywhere but MCO. Sometimes we'll non-rev (vacations) out of SRQ as the loads are usually lighter than MCO, but the airframes are usually smaller too, MD88's out of SRQ vs 757's out of MCO.

How easy is MCO to MSP?

Not a lot of frequency to MSP and loads out of MCO to anywhere are very high. No other options to get there without two legging it.

Probably non-optimal.

Nu

Check Travel Net and see how many flights per day there are, and which equipment type is on it, you can also see how overbooked each flight is. In the winter of course it's a lot busier than in August, but MCO seems to fill up every flight, every day, every month.

September is Disney's slowest month, but MCO also is the place the Port Canaveral cruise ship people fly in/out of, so there's that too. Delta has been replacing some of the 757's with 737's and MD88's in MCO, so watch out. Over Spring Break last month they did put some 767-300's on instead of 757's, which was nice, but I still had to sit in the jump seat both ways, back was completely full.

Suck it up for a few years and live in base, spend much more time with the crumb-grabbers and the squeeze, then when things settle, if that's even possible in this industry, find your place in Fla. where you can relax and enjoy the fruits of your labor and it will be that much more rewarding!

DON'T COMMUTE! (unless you really have to)

It is much easier to commute once you get senior enough to hold trips that don't sign in at 6am and return at 11pm! That's what kept me off the MD88 left seat in NYC when BOS was closed. I bid MD11 F/O instead, as those trips to Europe all signed in around 5pm and returned around 3pm. Much easier to commute to that!

bragger!! :D :D

I spent 0 nights last year in a crashpad or hotel as a commuter. I usually leave my house 5 hours prior to showtime and usually get back 4 hours after block-in though. The guy that lives in base probably leaves his house an hour prior to report and gets home an hour after block-in. That's a 7 hours extra away from home for me for every single trip. 28 hours per month or about 2 1/2 full days spent commuting per month. That's over 4 weeks per year at home I lose to commuting and I have a very easy commute. It doesn't get much better than what I have for commuting.

Pickle
First I'm gonna have to steal the crumb grabbers phrase. Awesome.

To everyone that's contributed thanks for the insight it's a lot to consider and I'm just happy to be done with a 2 leg commute to a one leg/long drive.

It seems like if you are on an international category commuting is easier.

Yes. If you can hold trips with afternoon sign in and release times, the commute is better. Another option is bidding longer trips. Some of the international categories will have 6+ day trips, which cuts down on the number of commutes. It can cut down on your number of nights at home though. A six day trip, means five nights away and one commute. Two three day trips would equal two commutes but only four nights away, so there is a trade off.

Wow. This thread is making me reconsider even going on my upcoming Delta interview. Right now I live in Tampa and fly for Southwest. I can hold MCO and drive to work, but choose to bid HOU for a better schedule. However, the commute to HOU is a piece of cake and totally stress free.

Leaving Tampa is not an option so I'm trying to determine if the better pay, retirement, and seniority at Delta is worth the quality of life I will have to give up leaving Southwest and commuting to ATL or NYC for the next 34 years of my life.

Thoughts???

A lot of the airlines is quality of life. A drive to MCO or easy commute to Houston is worth a lot. If you want to go wide body someday then think about the legacies. That said Delta seems to be getting away from that by outsourcing to third party subsidaries. Both airlines are in contract negotiations and hopefully both get significantly better rates and qol improvements.
Long story short take a long look at your situation and make sure that the grass really is greener.

go. then make the decision when there is one put in front of you.

not living in a delta base will significantly skew the career earnings number. all 'time' considerations discussed here....i would think apply no matter what company is involved.

the delta earnings premium comes from being able to use income multipliers....gs, rolling thunder, etc...and when those dry up...bidding jr. on a higher paying seat.

all highly complicated by commuting. maybe even prohibited.

in the best case.....commuting sucks. it sucks when you are 30.....and it will kill you at 60.

and commuting for 30 years? id sooner shoot myself. :(

To be honest I really don't care about flying a wide-body again. After getting out of the AF I flew MD-11's for 8 months and saw 35 countries doing it. It was a lot of fun, but eventually the novelty of it wore off and it was just another job that took me away from my family.

Time at home, pay, and retirement are really the only things that matter anymore so I'm beginning to think I may be better off staying at Southwest. We are pretty sure FLL is going to open as one of our next bases which should help the seniority in MCO.

If we could just get a B-Fund at Southwest! I flew with a guy who helps manage our current 401k and he showed me the math for a 31 year old guy starting at Southwest vs Delta today and the difference is staggering. It's a couple million!

However, what good is 5 million vs 3 million in retirement if you spent the last 30+ years of your life sacrificing quality of life. Plus who knows how long you will live anyways.

The ability to drive to work is worth it's wait in gold, I moved from Pensacola where my family loved to spend more time ultimately at home. Airlines leapfrog each other in pay rates and hopefully we all get a me too clause like United. Think about it long and hard before you turm down the interview.

That has been the great thing about Southwest so far. TPA has so much SW traffic that I see a lot of 1 day trips out of TPA in open time. I consistently pickup trips that start in TPA and have me home that night for dinner. So I feel I may have better earning potential at SW even though the pay rates will probably always be less and no opportunity for wide-body pay.

undoubtedly you have seen the the pay discussions here.

hourly rate isnt the most telling when it comes to the number on the w2. ask one of your delta bubbas to show you the atl 73nA list. and count how many could be 777A's.....but arent.

there are good reasons why.

of course this is the airline business....so every 5-6 years plan on your life getting turned upside down...

I'd buy tickets 3 weeks out or take public transportation before I ever considered a move to Hooterville.

Delta has recently hired 2,500 that will be ahead of you for a very long time. Weigh that verse making the same money and driving to work.

That's another thing I have considered. I was hired at the beginning of Southwests hiring wave and will retire number 6 on the list. While at Delta as you mentioned there are a ton of young guys already ahead of me. So even though Southwest is a senior airline right now I should have a pretty good QOL the last 15-20 years of my career at SW.

I understand the need or requirement to live in a certain area since I myself live on a small rural West Tennessee farm with LOTS of family nearby. Actually there are 3 generations living withing a 30 mile radius and having family nearby is a real plus versus living in a base housing environment.

I am currently on a widebody aircraft and have commuted for the majority of my 37+ years at this airline (or it's predecessor) and contrary to a previous post, commuting does NOT kill you.

Granted commuting does take extra time, but I have gladly traded that time to be near family. I like my choice and if I had to do it all over again, I would do the same thing.

Good luck with your interview.

All the best,

O.C.

I agree with OC. I've done both, lived in base and commuted, and there's no doubt that living in base is much easier than commuting, but after my base was closed, I had to make a decision; move to ATL or commute.

The decision I came to was to live where I (we, wife input of course!) want to live, and commute to work. That decision was based on the fact that I spend more time at home than I do at work, so I when I get home from work, I want to be someplace where I really enjoy spending my days off.

It has cost me the opportunity of picking up 'overtime' flying, because I'm so far away from the ATL I don't even bother putting in for GS most months, I've only had 2 in my entire career, but I look at that kind of sideways anyways. The problem with GS's is, you have to show up and fly them!

Since having 4 kids, I have always chosen more time off with them, over more money, but I don't drive a BMW and I still have wife number 1, which helps keep the cost of living down!

Most of the Major Florida bases can be a bear but doable. I commuted from FLL-DTW for just over a year and the last three FLL-ATL. 14 mainline flights on Delta alone to ATL and as a DCI guy with lower priority than mainline I've found it to be quite easy. With Spirit and Southwest the number goes up to about 23 flights a day so there are plenty of options.

The ability to reserve the J/S at DL for a DL guy is pure gold, you just have to practice being the fastest gun in the west. With the A321 being billed as the new milk runner for all things Florida, looking ahead that means two available J/S. As has been mentioned above commuting can and will test your faith at times, especially when you get the middle seat, in the last row between crying babies on the night flight after a long 20leg 4 day trip. However only you can make the decision if it's in your best interest given all variables, I grew up in Jamaica so a snowflake or temp below 60 is akin to kryptonite, making my decision to commute for the time being, to be happy around family and also enjoy my time at home very easy.

You are putting the cart way before the horse. You have to have a job offer first for it to even be a decision you have to make. If you don't want to interview don't interview...but I say go to the interview, hopefully get the offer, then make a decision.

That's the question though. Do I really want to go through all of that prep and study for a job I may not really even want? I thought about winging it and just showing up to the interview with no study and no prep, but our inherent Type A personalities make that hard to do.

I know you are thinking out loud (online?) but sitting here reading it--seems like you are all about the money when you are talking about Delta. Nothing wrong with thinking about the money. But when you discuss about the things you value (in this case, the issues related to commuting for life), sure seems like SWA is where you belong.

Delta does seem to hold the potential win when considering lifetime earnings. But look at the last 15 years: DL terminated a pension, drastically cut pay, furloughed. SWA hired off and on through that period and never furloughed. In 2000 people would have considered you insane to take SWA over DL. How'd that work out?

The big unknown is what the future will bring. And you can go nuts trying to figure that out. DL may pay more, but I'm pretty sure SWA will keep you and yours out of soup kitchens. Only you can decide how much is "enough."

You're welcome Timbo. Worked for EAL from '85-'89 and had many DL guys on our jumpseats before they could JS on their own metal. We were always happy to have you guys onboard and figured that it was paid ahead. It's worked out well for me since I have been using you guys out of Atlanta since going to UAL in '90.