Latest Negotiator's Notepad
 

Looks like management just wants to keep kicking a hornets nest. Management still wants concessions in Scope, where they are still out of balance in the AF/Royal Dutch KLM JV.
Write your reps...don't give management any concessions on the widebody scope metrics.

Per Diem , 401K, vacation, CQ....company apparently still wants failed TA offerings.

Buckle up that backpack boys and girls

Pretty much all the things I voted no for.

Management is pretty much showing open disdain for the pilot group.
That would have unnerved the old DALPA. Not gonna work this time.

Oh well. They have a couple more months to stall if they wish.

Then it will be time for the pilots to turn up the heat.

I say we organize the flight attendants.
Apparently there is some support for that idea on the MEC. We'll see.

No need to do anything. 28-30% profit sharing check coming in Feb. Oil prices will be low for years due to excess capacity. We'll wait and keep cashing the check every Feb.

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I suspect if we encouraged the flight attendants to organize it would have the opposite effect and result in more no votes. Several entities have tried numerous times to organize the flight attendants. They have poured large sums of money into the effort without success.
I am actually not even sure what you're suggesting. Do you want ALPA to represent them? Do you want ALPA to provide the financial support for another AFA attempt. How much do you think we should spend?

Surprisingly it appears we have agreed to concessions already in some sections. It appears we may have a agreement on sick leave soon that addresses the companies perceived issues.

Hell to the no.

That ends up being an easy no vote then.

How on earth would organizing the FA's help us?

The Company’s primary concerns seem to be extremely high uses of sick leave in a small minority of pilots and the continuing rise of sick leave usage overall. Recent discussions have centered on exploring acceptable paths to addressing these issues without increasing access to a pilot’s medical records or decreasing total sick leave accrual.
Although there is much work left to do, these discussions are showing some promise.

In addition to the above it looks like we will allow virtual basing and vacation sell back. Both are job killers. Before lots of pilots get excited by virtual basing keep in mind the company only wants it for a limited number of widebody international flights to eliminate deadheads.

Do NOT fall for vacation buyback!

Both of those items are a deal killer.

idk who on the NC would think otherwise. Wait. No, that's not entirely correct.

Because if it were successful it would cost the company a lot of money.
Just threatening to do it might be enough.

Follow me here. The only way we are ever going to get a new contract is when the company finds it in their best interest to sign one. In order for them to get to that point we have to exert economic pressure. We have various legal methods of doing that. Simply living with C2012 and continuing to collect our profit sharing is one way but I doubt it will be enough. Our "ask" has gone up a lot higher since early 2015.
Informational picketing is great too. But it doesn't hurt them enough. It doesn't cost them money.

Its my opinion that we have grown too large for the NMB to ever release us to self help. Its now politically impossible. "Consolidation" means we've seen the last of major airline strikes. The "big 4" airlines are now basically public utilities. We will never be allowed to shut down Delta Air Lines. Therefore Section 6 of the Railway Labor Act is a dead letter. Its useless. The NMB never releases anyone. Negotiations go for years beyond amendable dates.The NMB has made themselves irrelevant. We have to go through the motions to stay legal. But that's all it is. A kabuki dance from the 1960s.

I think we are going to have to escalate in other legal ways.
Bringing or threatening to bring other unions on the property is a surefire way to get management's attention. It will cost them big money and perhaps even more important - they would lose a lot of control over the operation. They cherish that control.
They slashed the non-contract employees' profit sharing by simply issuing a memo. What do you suppose keeping that power is worth to them?

Agreed. Virtual basing is to eliminate deadhead credit and hotels to cities that no one lives in. It will hurt most commuters. Not good.

1) I agree any changes would probably go sideways for us.

2) If it were written so that you could "pick" your virtual base that has year round scheduled mainline service and all your trips started and ended at that base well it would be a commuters dream. So now refer to #1 because that ain't gonna happen.

"Appears", give us some details. Conjecture or fact?

I posted the pertinent part from the NC. Here it is again.

The Company’s primary concerns seem to be extremely high uses of sick leave in a small minority of pilots and the continuing rise of sick leave usage overall. Recent discussions have centered on exploring acceptable paths to addressing these issues without increasing access to a pilot’s medical records or decreasing total sick leave accrual.
Although there is much work left to do, these discussions are showing some promise.

Why would we make any concessions?

BastIan is returning "at least 70% of free cash flow to the shareholders. "

Why would we sell vacations?

Sick leave concessions?

Add more 76 seats RJS?

Bring JV scope into compliance?

Pay, no credit vacation?

None of this can be true. It would be rejected by more than 65%.

I hope our union reps don't think we won't vote NO again.

Putting aside the whole "unionist" argument there is still a very good reason.

First off, I personally do not care if the FAs unionize or not. One of the managements highest priorities is keeping the FAs non-union. This is our leverage - management wants to avoid FAs unionizing at all costs. It is the threat of them organizing that we leverage.

In the past DALPA has sat on the sidelines and not taken a stance one way or the other on this issue, which in my opinion was tacitly siding with management. Many Pilots think having non-union FAs benefit us as Pilots. I personally disagree with this school of thought and don't really think it matters one way or another. As evidence I offer the PWAs at AMR and UAL. At AMR - the Pilots still have a DB., rates above ours and now PS. Look at UAL - some parts of their PWA are superior to ours and some parts of their PWA are inferior to ours. It does not appear that having FAs organize has any pronounced affect on there quality of Pilot PWAs one way or another.

Now back to DAL. I have personally discussed this with John Malone twice. My take is the MEC is going to look seriously at this issue and I would expect to see this question addressed in polling going forward.

The company does not want the FAs to unionize. We tell management at a certain date we will start actively supporting the FAs and also the mechanics in organizing. The company does not want this so it just another reason for them to stop dragging their feet.

And for those who don't think having the Pilots help would make a difference I will point out how close the recent organizing efforts have come. They very well may successfully organize without any help. With our help it will probably be a lock.

Scoop

Better not use my dues money for this windmill hunt.

Just so glad no secret agent men on my negotiating committee !!!

We may be better off with the others unionized. Then there won't be the constant threat of "but they will want it too". They will have a contract and have to negotiate when amendable themselves. As it stands now, if we get a .50 cent increase in per diem, you can bet your ass that the FAs will get the day after our ratification. With them being union they will have to wait and negotiate the increase.

^^^

We would be WAY better off with the FA's and Mechanics unionized.

Some of the feet dragging by management is so they can go to the non contracts and say, "See how good things go with a union". That way they get more no voters for the next union drive that comes up. If they give us a good contract it almost seals the deal for at least the FA's to vote in a union.

Windmill Hunt? Are you combining "Tilting at windmills" a la Don Quixote, with "Witch hunt?"

Its almost like combining Rocket science with brain surgery. :D

Seriously though, I guess it depends on what the MEC decides or how long this drags out.

Call your Reps and give them your input.

Scoop

Beep, beep, back the truck up. Appears we agreed to concessions is what you said. Care to expand. Don't bother, you are here for one and only one reason. FPL gone? Fly the line.

There will always be a few compromises (gives, concessions, whatever). It's a negotiation.

It had dang well be very very heavily weighted in gains on our side, though. NA2015 didn't come anywhere close to that.

I know, right! I still want a refund for special committee expenses and the $1.7M (or whatever its up to now) TA sales debacle.

United contract...

We could do rate only but it would have to be more like 28 7 7 to make up for the soft money stuff, vacation, training, etc.

Pay, no credit vacation? ***? How is that more vacation? That's just a little more money. I want industry leading vacation. We're not even industry standard.

Your crystal ball, sage Sir, was correct. Think about your answer to that question, fellow Delta pilots.

You want to spend our dues money to organize other employee groups? seriously?

Because it's so much better spent 1.7 Million at a time on a lopsided deceptive sales job. That was absolutely disgraceful!

Do you support spending our dues money to deliberately deceive our pilots in an effort to get them to support concessions? Seriously?

Yeah. That is what I support.:rolleyes:

The MD-11 did. Happy to hear you didn't support their deceptive efforts either.

And that is relevant to this discussion, how again?

I was unhappy with the TA 15 sales job, but to this day I have flown with many a pilot who honestly thinks that we earn more absolute dollars since we rejected the TA than had we passed it. That could not happen in any scenario but the belief persists.

Funny that none of the DALPA haters ever seem to correct that.

It's the concessions. The caving on scope, OE trip drops, mediocre vacation gains, sick language, profit sharing (buying our pay rates)....

This is why it got voted down!

The MD-11 refused to honestly address these areas. All they wanted to say is "look at the pay rates" which, by the way, still weren't earth shattering. A complete failure!

If that's what it takes to motivate management, then yes.
If they want to keep the FAs and mechanics non-union they can sign our contract.

I know it goes against everything you believe in, but --

Your Moakist philosophy failed. We are no longer going to collaborate with management.

We are now going to spend money fighting management. Get used to it. Its what unions do.