Originally Posted by trustbutverify (Post 2140809)

Fleet composition has a direct correlation to Scope. And our pay scales are based on gauge size (rightfully so). DALPA likes to hold up our 777 pay rate as a comparison to other legacy pilot contracts. So, given those points and the fact that wide body fleet size affects every pilot's career progression, I'd say that information has huge relevance to our contract negotiations.

Originally Posted by gloopy (Post 2140811)

The problem isn't so much that UAL has more large wide bodies than we do. "We" have a lot, its just not our seniority list that flies them. For some reason foreign airlines, supposedly barely making a profit if at all, are vastly preferred in the "Skyteam" network over DL pilots, who have to claw tooth and nail to get "half" of the flying, which is generally thought to be a long term 47%-ish share.

So while the DALPA "move along nothing to see here" narrative of "we can't control what planes the company buys" is technically true, there's way more to it than that.

Its time for fair block hour and ESK metrics in our PWA, with strict penalties for non compliance, as well as it being time to define "half" as 53% for the next decade or two.

Originally Posted by JamesBond (Post 2140822)

Good. Now we are getting somewhere. Now carry this out to the next step. How do you make our earnings comparable to those other carriers?

Originally Posted by JamesBond (Post 2140804)

So what? That is all a management decision. Go interview at UAL if you think you made such a big mistake. There is nothing you can do no matter how hard you jump up and down and whine about it to make DAL management buy that kind of fleet if they don't want/need it. You are just crying about what somebody else has and that has zero relevance to our negotiations. zero.

Originally Posted by Hank Kingsley (Post 2140852)

How many 777 captains do we have and many does UAL/AMR have, lots of high paying jobs. It matters. Jim, I can say I got mine, last contract and been wide body CA for a long time. Standing in the middle of the road only gets you run over. Ed's coming down the road looking for us.

Originally Posted by trustbutverify (Post 2140849)

Tighten up scope and ensure we are ahead of other contracts on a seat by seat comparison (i.e. 73N FO to 73N FO and 73N CA to 73N CA). Scope tightening needs to have immediate, sizeable penalties for non-compliance.

Originally Posted by Hank Kingsley (Post 2140852)

How many 777 captains do we have and many does UAL/AMR have, lots of high paying jobs. It matters. Jim, I can say I got mine, last contract and been wide body CA for a long time. Standing in the middle of the road only gets you run over. Ed's coming down the road looking for us.

Originally Posted by WhatNow (Post 2140876)

For the last 30 years UAL has had bigger equipment at the top. If however you average the fleet sizes out the total number of seats is very close since we are heavy in the middle. Because of a superior contract we also staff our long haul widebodies with far more captains then UAL or American.
How many pilots has UAL hired in the last five years compared to Delta?

Originally Posted by JamesBond (Post 2140861)

Really? How do you propose to force the company to buy airplanes they may not need?

Originally Posted by TED74 (Post 2140899)

Word on the street is that the UAL CEO claims their seniority list will contain 18,000 pilots by 2020. That's a lot of hiring over our next two contracts. Lots of wide bodies coming on board too.

Had DAL shared plans for pilot list growth...other than the lists of our JV partners?