I do agree that changing leadership again is not ideal. It may not be feasible. And I'm not advocating leaving the ALPA this point, although I do think the issue will be forced if another poor TA is delivered. The IPA's results at UPS simply can't be overlooked; nor can ALPA's lack of results and bloated budget.

As for a hard-nosed leader, I think there are several guys out there who could do a great job. We'll need to get away from guys who have been in multiple administrations, and guys who have higher ambitions. I'd be happy to give you my opinions offline. It would be great to have a guy who said, "I'm willing to get this contract done, and then I'm out."

Again, just my opinions. It's easy for me to opine on a web board. I fully understand reality is tougher than it seems from a web forum.

 

All good points. Cheers.

 

 

[QUOTE=Purple Drank;2162617]He permitted the company to repeat the NA15 playbook: "Help us with our problems, and we'll give you lots of money." /QUOTE]


Is this serious?

We are in Negotiations. Defined as, 1. General: Bargaining (give and take) process between two or more parties (each with its own aims, needs, and viewpoints) seeking to discover a common ground and reach an agreement to settle a matter of mutual concern or resolve a conflict. Noun form of the verb negotiate.

If anyone, and I seriously mean anyone expects a deal of any sort without some sort of trades, you are delirious. It's like my four year old demanding ice cream by crying, screaming, and stamping her feet when we say, "not until after you eat your vegetables." If she keeps it up, we ignore her.

If I'm EB that's what I would do. Anyone who thinks they "need" a deal more than we do, I turn your attention to the 1.7B in profit this quarter alone. They don't "need" anything. Sure they would "like" some changes but they don't "need" them.

They can drag this out a very long time. We are in a fortunate position of having PS as a hedge against our rates for the time being. Hopefully we keep making money, but for those that think we're getting 40% + PS, with zero trades(I don't use the phrase concession, b/c I do not believe a trade and a concession are the same thing) your not going to get it.

There is nothing wrong with helping your company improve it's competitive standing, if they in turn offer you a part of the proceeds.

 

[QUOTE=marcal;2162684]That being said, EB is out to take, take and take. He expects us to pay for our gains. Corporate greed is an understatement. In light of what we lost in BK, they're over reaching.

 

the more he takes.....the more he makes...pretty strong motivation.

 

[QUOTE=Hank Kingsley;2162703]
I don't make light of what was lost in BK, however DAL management is doing the same thing now as they have the last ten or so years. They are attempting to work with the pilots to solve their needs while giving the pilots some of theirs. This method worked the last ten years or so no doubt(obviously not to the extent of many pilots here).

EB isn't doing anything different than RA did. The only difference is that EB looks like a slicked back Wall Street Gordon Gekko, and RA asked for his takes in a slow southern drawl. The biggest hindrance to this entire process in my opinion is that the pilots have a tough time doing anything at all to help EB, the architect of the BK and earlier givebacks. I don't blame the resentment, but at the same time we need to focus on our group, not the guy on the other side.

 

I don't post often but I had to respond to this.

First, you're definition of "negotiation" is wonderful - as long as they all take place in the exact same environment. Have you been following what's happening in our industry? The current environment does not call for give by the pilots. We've already given!!!

I'm delirious if I expect a deal with no trades? I guess everyone at Allegiant, United, UPS, and even American are delirious by your definition.

You say the company doesn't "need" a thing in light of their continuing profits? What would happen to those profits and the coveted JDPower awards if all Delta pilots stopped flying ANY overtime and flew to the exact letter of the PWA/FOM? The schedule would grind to a halt. We pilots have kept this operation going for decades through our "above and beyond" attitude and management refuses to acknowledge that fact.

 

Speaking of "delusional," Marcal, are you saying we should have lesser benefits and QOL than any other pilot group? When Delta's profits lead the industry?

 

I disagree. We having been giving lots for years. Now it is time to take back..Guys willing to give more concessions like yourself are the problem. I think we saw that the majority of Delta pilots are not willing to keep taking more concessions during record profits.