Originally Posted by FLY6584 (Post 2181689)

I'm not sure if anyone is interested in seeing this, but I ran overall system seniority for a guy hired at Delta today vs a guy hired at Southwest 10 months ago. Both with approximately 33 years left of flying. I then compared that system seniority to what it took to hold each aircraft and seat in ATL compared to what it took to hold each seat in one of our junior bases (HOU) and senior bases (MCO) at Southwest.

I was surprised to see that narrowbody progression at Delta in ATL closely mirrors our career progression at one of our junior bases here at Southwest. It also appears that widebody flying will make up a small part of your career at Delta if you are unwilling to sit at the bottom of the list. Keep in mind this is only in ATL though. NYC would be totally different. And also keep in mind this assumes 1% growth per year at Southwest and obviously doesn't take into account another merger/acquisition. I also realize the Delta calculator doesn't take into account front end hiring and is based off hiring for retirements alone.

Hope this helps anyone else trying to figure out what to do!



There's a better website for calculating your potential career path at Delta but you have input your employee number. It was eye opening to see it's forecasts. It's based on current fleets, bases, position, and compares it to the current spread of where pilots are and their retirement schedule.
Here's a recap, if you have dreams of flying a wide body and are over the age of 35, your dream will be crushed here. Unless you have no need to hold a quality schedule, the vacation weeks you desire, and don't mind being junior reserve FO at age 43.
Example I'm 40 for DTW 777 FO, I can't hold it till 2023. DTW 777 CA, not until 2038!! And that's to be the plug. Meanwhile I can be the most junior DTW 717 CA by 2023 and bid in the top 25% by 2026.

So do I want to hold a crap schedule that may not get my days off with the 777? Or do I want to have strong bidding power, hold great vacation, as a Captain? To be honest a quality wide body Captain career doesn't exist here, unless you get hired in your 20's. Even then it will take a long time. Might as well just go to Emirates if you have no soul.

Granted I only spent one summer commuting to New York to fly international, but it sucked. My wife complained that I was constantly tired. Flying mainly domestic now, and it's nice not living in a fog.

IMHO Stick with SWA if it keeps you based near home.

https://www.ezopenboard.com/delta/tm...10085BB83C.gif

Originally Posted by Catboatsailor (Post 2182189)

What's the website for progression that's not the relative position?

Originally Posted by Catboatsailor (Post 2182217)

In the last two years the 7ER fleet was slammed with new hire training. I don't see a cycle like that ever happening again for that fleet.

Originally Posted by Dodo (Post 2182118)

Methinks you meant "discrete." Unless it's really a hush-hush thing for you!:D

Originally Posted by JamesBond (Post 2182288)

Word has it that we might see newbies again in the fall.

Originally Posted by FLY6584 (Post 2181962)

While I agree, I feel that commuting to work with Delta will be far tougher than driving to work with Southwest regardless of the flying I do.

Don't get me wrong I'd love to fly 9-12 days a month on a 777 out of ATL with all weekends off, but after running the numbers I've realized that would make up a very small part of my career. If I'm going to primarily be on narrow bodies most of my career I assume just stay with Southwest and drive to work.

I flew MD-11's internationally before Southwest and while it was fun at first the novelty eventually wore off. I love flying 2-3 legs a day at Southwest on 3-day weekday trips, but to each their own.

Originally Posted by NYC Pilot (Post 2182048)

American, Delta and United are global airlines.

Originally Posted by Mink (Post 2182393)

They've also all been through bankruptcy, furloughed thousands, and routinely rank near the bottom when it comes to customer satisfaction when measured against their global competitors.

Originally Posted by Catboatsailor (Post 2182217)

For anyone considering joining Delta, no I wouldn't consider it a viable wide body career path. The 757 will be phased out in the next 10 years, replaced by 321 & 737-900. 767 flying will be replace with A330. I'd guess that most senior FO's on the 7ER will switch to the 330 forcing it to be a super senior aircraft. I've flown with too many right seat lifer's.

In the last two years the 7ER fleet was slammed with new hire training. I don't see a cycle like that ever happening again for that fleet.

Originally Posted by JamesBond (Post 2182288)

Word has it that we might see newbies again in the fall.

Originally Posted by MikeF16 (Post 2182321)

I think you are correct. Although there were no ERs on the last AE, those jumping ship exceeded the back-fill leaving vacancies.

Originally Posted by badflaps (Post 2182495)

Of the five pilot bases I flew from, only one remains.

Originally Posted by FLY6584 (Post 2182095)

That's definitely something to consider, but our CEO has made it clear our growth is going to be south. He wants to takeover South America which is also why our next base will likely be FLL. Furthermore, there is so many gates and overnights in both MCO and TPA that one of them would have to always be a base.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 2182650)

The 330 guys have been actively working on a footprint for noobs for a few months now as well. Strange times!

Originally Posted by Catboatsailor (Post 2182767)

I hope they're focusing on Street Captain training for the 717 & C-series. I'd wager $50 that we'll see it in 5 years or less. They'll have to move the Captain's leadership training to the upgrade footprint instead of a year later.

Originally Posted by GateOccupied (Post 2182748)

Sounds like Spirit country. They've got a good hold on that new FLL expansion, and lots of S. America slots to even the dark and dirty destinations that your average pax wouldn't frequent for vacation. Think SWA would just acquire the competition? Anyone?

Originally Posted by JamesBond (Post 2182726)

Oh my GOD! They are leaving in droves. What will we ever do?

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 2182650)

The 330 guys have been actively working on a footprint for noobs for a few months now as well. Strange times!

Originally Posted by MikeF16 (Post 2182111)

I appreciate the effort but the table is worthless. I haven't even been here 2 years and am around 85% which is at your 6 year point. Garbage in, garbage out...

Originally Posted by tunes (Post 2182912)

i know everyone at hq is saying it will go to new hires, and know you work in training, but i just dont see the 330 going to new hires.

Originally Posted by JamesBond (Post 2182157)

International isn't the be all end all for everybody. I knew guys in my peer group that bid ER FO way back when, and couldn't wait to get off of it. HATED international. The OP has stated that he flew international prior to his SWA gig and the 'novelty wore off'. Not saying anything bad about your recommendation, but just realize that not everybody aspires to live on the backside of the clock and manage naps for a living.

That being said, a lot of pilots use JetBlue to commute to NY from Florida and love it. NY is much much easier from FL than ATL unless you are senior and can get the JS at .00000000001second past noon.

The OP actually sounds like he is thinking this thru.

Originally Posted by Mink (Post 2182393)

They've also all been through bankruptcy, furloughed thousands, and routinely rank near the bottom when it comes to customer satisfaction when measured against their global competitors.