Sink r8

Having read the latest NNP, I think we can all agree that it was a good idea to release the balance of terms. Normally, negotiating in public probably causes us to underperform potential deals by a few %. In this case, since the AIP's were released, it was impossible not to deliver this information. Half-transparency is no transparency at all.

So, to give credit where credit is due: nice work, all 19 of you. Same for the NC/Admin/Chairman.

The terms are being released a bit late, IMO, but now we have "book-ends" from which to work. The Delta pilot can see for himself/herself whether there is a deal available in the spectrum between our respective positions, and how it fits overall next to our peers at other airlines. Information thus restores a bit of power to the group. This is good.

We also have a bit of a floor to work from. We can benchmark against the company proposal (which I think you can currently reasonably backdate to 1/1/2016), to evaluate the value of a deal in the promised timeframe, vs. a deal that takes much longer.

We can also start evaluating the AIP's in the context of a workable deal.

Most importantly, this lays down the path to a vote. Pity the fool that can't let the pilots vote, or can't get a deal in this environment. All you need to do is: 1) not get parked, 2) stand together by committing to a target so clear, so well-chosen, and so workable that the company has to come up to meet it or risk a release, and 3) without making the mistakes of the previous administration, put it out for a vote with a very neutral perspective. I'm not saying there is a perfect deal to be had (there never was), but I'm saying you have to be enormously incompetent to fail to get us something very solid to vote on with the cards the MEC holds.

Viking busdvr

This sounds remarkably close to what I heard from reps wrt the POS TA2015>> "it's not everything we hoped for, but we feel it has enough value that the pilots should get to vote on it".... Then the sales job began, and a few days before the vote was scheduled, all the MEC yes voters got together and sent out a letter claiming the TA was the best thing since sliced bread, and that we could NEVER, EVER, get anything better no matter how hard we tried, so you better vote yes... How'd that go for you Sinkrate?

Sink r8

For me? I was asked to help make the TA facts available. We went in with no NNP's, I was not available for the initial briefing, and several errors were committed. Guys on the other side were ready to scuttle the deal, and exploit the results. I'd say we got trounced: they won the internet. I've moved on.

A couple of things I was ridiculed for before, during, and after the brief period where I was a black-shirted thug (unapologetically so) were to say that this is all a vast power struggle. I stand by that. I was ridiculed for saying it was a good thing we got to vote on the thing. I stand by that. A 65% is an excellent result, that the other side should have been able to capitalize on. It's not too late, but they're stretching the limits of the latitude they can reasonably expect, IMO. Time to show results.

Perhaps Sink r8's P2P foray is still interesting to you, but it's not today's topic. Last year's team is clearly out. This is about this team, and it's about results. If they can get themselves out of the corner they've painted themselves into, I think they can very easily let us judge their work. It's been over a year. We deserve a shot at true direction, in the form of a vote.

During the vote, I would advise a very, very soft touch, and a hands-off approach. There is no reason there can't be a deal with enough value, then there should be facts, and very little commentary. And a 60-day MEMRAT.

Get results, get quiet, trust in the pilot group.

Purple Drank

The AIPs are DOA. There is no path to "yes" with the product this NC produced. Unfortunately for you, you will not be able to collect our dues money to shill for another POS TA quite yet. Your bad news is our good news.

Slinkr8, I recommend holding off before you donate your strike fund to the ALPA PAC.

I just realized you sound a lot like Shiznit.

Sink r8

If you read Malone's recent letters, there is also no path to a deal without the AIP's. I think the AIP's are very weak. The difference between us seems to be that I'm not surprised.

In the end, I just think you're afraid of a vote. You own this venue, but when people vote individually, they couldn't give two squats about PD or Sink r8. I think individuals using their right to direct the union, all be themselves and outside the reach of your passive-aggressive stuff, is offensive to you. I think the middle of the group expects a deal, demands a deal, and is fully capable of voting on a deal.

Purple Drank

I welcome a vote. Let's TA everything on the table and vote tomorrow.

You can try to wish it as many times as you want. But the AIPs are not ratifiable.

Sink r8

Excellent. Then we agree, right? We're both happy to let the pilots get a vote, and settle this for us? Tomorrow's ridiculous, of course, but there has to be a solid deal within the book-ends. So: vote on best this MEC can do?

If it helps, I don't like a lot of the AIP's either. I started out disliking VB's the most. Now I think TDY has the potential to be even more of an issue.

If you want my opinion on how I would vote, we can talk about it in MEMRAT. Right now, I'm waiting to get a TA to look at. They sure aren't going about it the way I wanted, but I'll judge it when I see it.

TenYearsGone

Although everything I have read thus far about our progress is not impressive, I appreciate the MEC for sharing the information. I would rather have it this way, then have them give us a TA filled with this garbage. At least now, our voices will be heard before the final nail is put in the coffin.

TEN

gzsg

I'm ready to vote tomorrow as long as ALPA is gone. Until then, the MEC is in control. That is our union.

buckleyboy

Sink, what kind of results do you expect? Is getting a TA a result you want, even if it gets shot down?

Sometimes we have to fight for results. Sometimes it means standing up to the schoolyard bully rather than just meekly handing over our lunch money.

I am not necessarily advocating that right now, as I would much rather spend my time sipping corn and stalking deer, but if we have to stand our ground before we get those results, you best believe I'll stand proudly and firm.