Well, hey we are gonna grow a pair and say no because of having to get a sick note, so I am sure that will help make it all better. Saying no is also a concession whether or not you believe that.

And I have no idea *** you are talking about. I didn't 'cite' any report.

Oops, you right you don't cite "information." And what concession are we agreeing to by not amending our PWA?

We need BOTH ESK and block hour protections, in addition to protections in every theatre and from every single JV. Anything less than that guarantees abuse and us losing because we have MBA's hell bent on going as absolutely low as they can (and then lower) flying as little as they can with our metal and our seats and our pilots and employees.

Well for starters, we won't be 'fixing' our alleged deficient scope clause wrt international JVs. Once the camel is in the tent he's in. But, oh yeah... we are gonna just say no until they fix these things, right? Do you have any idea how laughable that is? We get further behind in pay AND watch the likelihood of full retro evaporate. (Standing by for 'you are all about YOUR pay rates' bullshiite) There are others I am sure but those are the most obvious.

SCOPE is your example? We will most likely do more damage with new scope provisions. Improvements are what we want, right? Retro = 3B4 and higher PS, even a few on your side of the argument acknowledged this will likely happen with the absence of an amendment to the PWA.

3B4 don't do bupkus when the FED kicks up interest rates like they are talking about. Concession. The 3% the non cons will be getting won't even keep up with inflation at that point. That's YOUR answer? And you are the one that was bloviating about how we are getting screwed in international JV. If, as you say, our scope is awful and there are more JV partners doing 'our' flying, that ain't gonna change without a new provision. Meanwhile, they continue -if what you allege is true- to take our flying, and getting that back will take years. Concession. And I'll stick with my prediction that retro is gone if we don't have a deal within the next month or so. Concession. Oh, but we'll say no until they give it to us, right?

Gridlock is a terrible strategy. The reps need to come together and do what is right for us. Stop the infighting. It's stupid and childish.

Agreed! I just don't see what others are seeing apparently. I see a management team that has no intentions of building up international flying with our own planes and crews.

Childish, that's your moniker.

Management will do what they want. They have already proven their ability to economically violate SCOPE. I prefer to collect on the I'll gotten profits and not do further harm by changing a metric every 3 years. Global protection would be nice if I thought they would honor it.

Right, because I am the one whining about sick notes and telling others to 'grow a pair'.