No worries. Even though I would prefer them not coming I see it happening. I know that I am in the minority on this and that is OK - I respect the guys that will vote No with 1 more RJ and that is also OK.

Here is my thinking on this. I lived through the decade where 50 more large RJs resulted in hundreds of furloughed Delta Pilots. I don't see that happening here. Like I said we can look at C-2012 and see actual results - we don't have to speculate. Scope is to protect jobs - could we have possibly hired more Pilots if C-2012 was not passed? I don't know but I doubt it.

After living through the last decade I did breathe a sigh of relief when we ordered the C series and basically felt that we may have lost a few RJs battles but that we won the war. We held the line at 76 seats and the number of RJ seats is rapidly going down. Yes 50 seaters will probably go away anyway - I do believe that, but if we can get a bunch of other improvements in our PWA for this I am willing to give it a look.

I get the angst over more RJs and also find it distasteful, but I am not willing to vote No on a deal that allows more RJs if I don's see those RJs as hurting DAL Pilots - which I just don't see. I understand the principled No vote and in the past I would probably be doing the same but I see it as futile right now.

I know this is an very unpopular thing to say on the forums but it is how I feel.

Scoop

what about all the -200's going to endeavor this year?

Do you know whether or not it is true that they still have 25 large RJs that they have not taken delivery of? I hear what you are saying, and I actually think on a certain level we are in agreement. What I am saying is that their 'need' is not as dire as some on here are making it out to be. They know that guys will get all spooled up over this issue and do almost anything to protect it. Head fake. jmho

well said sir.

No, DCI is maxed out on all their aircraft, and over the scope limit on 50's right now until Republic winds down the E145's. Management would like to get 50 more 76 seat jets to Skywest to park their 50's, and then 9E will just park our 40, as they are temporary anyway. That would end the 50 seaters at Delta completely unless there is a carve out for the at risk flying that Skywest is doing.

I still can't figure out why management has a deal with GoJet, that partnership has tarnished Delta's performance, and alone cost them the number one airline award last year.

DCI likely won't be going away, the work rules here allow Delta to take on additional market share that would be dropped unless you offered concessions. Then, there are the 27 gates in ATL that Delta would lose to another airline if they lose their deal with Skywest. Republic DCI being shut down would have resulted in Delta losing 5 departure slots in DCA to AA, so Delta had to ink a long term deal with them. Salaries are no longer a part of the process in my opinion, even though if TA1 had been approved there would have been a $150K pay gap between a regional 76 seat jet, and a mainline 76 seat jet. The big deal is market share, and there is no way for Delta to get that back if they choose to use mainline over regionals.

I'm not sure how the DCI model holds up. If the requirements to fly for them are same as mainline why would someone voluntarily work for half pay? The model is imploding on itself. Mgmt outsmarted themselves when they bought bazillions of RJs to access small markets and whipsaw pilot groups. They thought pilots would flock to crappy flying and pay even after they greatly eroded the value of progression to the majors. Mgmt never had a plan to follow up the 50 seaters other than scope concessions and cheap labor. Any relief we give them now would probably just help them lower the RJ industry into its grave. Its just another temporary fix to management's blunders we should leverage to the max. JMO, OFG

LOL that's the point. And precisely why we shouldn't even entertain it.

We'll see when we get the eventual TA. If its not in there, you'll be right about this. If it is, I will be right about this. And I do NOT want to be right about this.

I'm betting more large RJ's will be in TA2.0

I don't think DCI will "go away" either. If we hold strong on scope this time at the regional level, more 50's will be parked and DCI will shrink, but will still be there. Its also possible to put a first class in the 50's, which they may end up doing just to say they are all first class etc. It would help those POS's with max weight and forward CG issues as well. Yes it would increase the CASM, but that's just a paper pusher number because the trip cost would be the same and they'd get more revenue per flight out of it IMO. Even if it ended up being a net loss, they would still do it because the losses would be easily spread out (if not outright hidden), marketshare would be preserved and getting to say "every flight has first class period" would be marketing gold for HVC's. Regionals flew 40 and 44 seat CRJ-200's for many years and easily may do so again, only this time with a first class instead of the closets and false bulwarks.

The RAH debacle was a huge mistake IMO. Paying that much, and breathing life into a cut throat bottom feeder that will always have aspirations to fly larger planes/merge with "Nationals" (as they used to be called) etc is a mistake just for a tiny number of slots in LGA. Better to let them go and simply upsize existing slots. Or simply outbid the competition for those slots when they went to liquidation, which they would have. Worst case we'd let some desperate airline like JB/VX drastically overpay, and then we could bury them with their own money on whatever routes they chose to use them on.

The SKYW issue I agree is a bigger deal, but it's not the fulcrum to our future by any means. When almighty SWA bought asymmetric guerrilla warfare specialists AT, that moment represented IMO the absolute high water mark for what would be possible for a dangerous competitor in ATL. And DL kicked their tails. Hard. Now what's left is a very rational competitor that not only doesn't harm DL, but actually helps stabilize it.

Who exactly will be able to come in and leverage the SKYW gates against an incredibly healthy DL and SW now, who will both become allies of necessity if it happens?

Empty threat. All they have to do is spend a quarter or two's stock buyback money and they can bury any possible competitor that could use those gates. SKYW needs DL more than DL needs SKYW.

That said, I see them keeping them precisely because of that; they're even less motivated to press to test that than we are. We throw them a few bones over their current book, maybe swap a few 50's for 76s, and they'll be happy. JA has a massive ego, but he's not stupid. ATL is far from the gold mine some seem to think it is. Its great for a megahub because it moves traffic well, and its a good market but its nothing mind blowing. There's very little low hanging peaches down there y'all.