Airline exec 3way?
 

Yahoo Financial: "Scott Kirby Named President of United Airlines

CHICAGO, Aug. 29, 2016 /PRNewswire/ -- United Continental Holdings, Inc. (UAL) today announced that Scott Kirby has been named president of United Airlines. In this newly created role, Kirby will assume responsibility for United's operations, marketing, sales, alliances, network planning and revenue management. Kirby's appointment is effective immediately and he will report to Oscar Munoz, United's CEO. Kirby joins United from American Airlines, where he held the title of president since the merger of American and US Airways in 2013."


Ever get the feeling you are stuck in the belly of the ship, chained to an oar, listening to the constant drum beat, 'con-ces-sions', 'con-ces-sions'. While the guys running the ship are laughing all the way to the bank.

Guess we oughta give up that PS mip carve out, wouldn't want our top-notch execs being tempted to play the field.

There are no longer airlines, they are "Enterprises."

"Enterprises" nurtured by benevolent execs and damaged by pesky pilots.

"Enterprises" boldly go where no man has gone before.
When they arrive, they find out why not. :(

Hey...those Ritz-Carlton condos on Singer Island don't just pay for themselves...

http://www.bizjournals.com/southflor...ton-condo.html

Airline exec 3way.

Sounds kinky.

Not as salacious as Anthony Weiner sexting. But just imagine a dal 747 Captain being able to transfer his services directly to a ual 747 left seat with maybe a signing bonus? 'Climactic' end to a pilot career?

Too bad the only 'whoring' out available to us is Herndon. That does explain a lot, though.

That would go a long way toward establishing market based pay, benefits and work rules.

Negotiating that 'national seniority' would be a b*tch, eh.

Sure wish pilots could just hop over to a different airline that was willing to pay them more..

I admired TWA and Pan Am's pay scales in the 60's, 70's and one or two years in the 80's .... Sorta lost interest after that.

You must be new to this business. So here's a scenario for you. There is some black swan event for airline X. Their pilots will be taking massive pay cuts and concessions. But... they can go to airline Y, where you work, and slide right in. Where do they go? 1) bottom of the list? Or 2) in front of you?

A national seniority list is a hideous idea unless we get paid by "the union" and that would make it way more susceptible to corruption.

BUT...a National Seniority List, along with a National Contract would be the quickest way to get Longevity Based Pay, so...;)

Wow I didn't say let's have a national seniority list. I didn't even imply it. I actually dislike the idea as well. I was simply lamenting the fact that other professions can switch to a different employer and carry their experience with them. If anything I think we should demand extra compensation where we are at specifically because of this handicap. I love how there is always someone on APC who needs additional explanation, today it was James Bond.

Many share your thoughts on the 'handicap,' or seniority based market enslavement.;) And the 'handicap' you reference doesn't even take into account the huge disparity between other positions and portability vs the pilot professional. Scotty was not hampered by our barriers to free market such as a national 'corporate behemoth' union, the RLA, the NMB, etc. Heck, apparently he wasn't even hampered by a 'no compete'!

There are a few ways to work around the handicap for motivated folks. And I believe the evolution of the profession may help to self-correct the above mentioned forces, leading to a more market based pay and benefit picture. I can always hope.

There's the foreign airline route, ugh, and Herndon positions are scarce . Another is to seek a better method of compensation outside of the aviation profession. Yup, there's that(edit-EBastian and company drove me and others in that direction!). Just as young pilots make the decision to forego an aviation career for better pastures elsewhere, we are able to participate in small business, entrepreneurship, etc.

The profession has historically provided this free time, even though the trend from mgt is creating the 'more productive pilot'. The 'golden goose' may be reversed on mgts in the future. If the profession does not support the pilot pool 'golden goose' aspirations, mgts will be indirectly damaging the 'enterprise'. Watch your step, mgt!(IMO)

It would actually be the best way for ALPA to increase their membership as well. If they wanted to start a national seniority number system tomorrow with the first newhire, I would think that would be a great thing. No way to figure out how it would work with the existing pilots though. It would be a nightmare.

Never happen though

Interesting. As a 2X4 captain, where can you go today and make the kind of coin you are pulling down with the time off etc etc etc?

It isn't a question of where you can go, it is a question of what you can do for yourself. If you are always looking at options that involve working for money, you will end up on the losing end. Using your 2x4 captain income to acquire assets that work for you is the best route. It takes time, which this job provides. Doing something on your own, rather than relying on the benevolence of Ed will be liberating.

I'm convinced one of the reasons that Ed is seeking so many productivity concessions is to stifle our efforts outside of Delta. As a group, our work ethic, motivation and ability to assess risk provides us great opportunity outside of the profession. Many of us make more outside of Delta that we do working for Delta. Productivity concessions that limit our time for income and asset growth outside of Delta makes it easier for Ed and his minions to control the pilot group.

This is true. I am very liberated.

Didn't say I was off the reservation for good, 2yrs to go. During bankruptcy, I urged anyone that would listen to use the talent that got them where they are to start a business or dive into something that would interest them and also make them money. Worked for me, starting an intl company with partners after angel investing since the mid nineties.

Also, I've played a lot of golf with some dumbsh** sales guys and business owners that made just enough mistakes to find their right niche to make a comfortable life for themselves... oh and have their own 'retirement'. Granted it's work that sometimes seems never ending, that's why you have to be interested, imo.

Utilizing 'time off', one of the sacred parts of this job, many are pursuing other endeavors. If dal and dalpa are not providing what is perceived as market value, the natural flow would be inevitable.

To me, being a more productive pilot is code for 'chain both your hands to that bloody oar'. Compensate me or I'll compensate myself.

A better post than my rambling. One key is the 'time' we have been provided to pursue other goals, which seems to be less with each agreement. Well said

A national seniority list would make us all individual contract employees with a minimum salary negotiated by the union. This is exactly how the Directors Guild of America or any other national seniority list works. Thus we would have to compete with each other for work vs having individual groups bargain collectively. A complete disaster if you ask me.

No, a much better system would be ALPA National becoming a professional standards society like the American Medical Association, and each individual company has its own independent union for collective bargaining. This eliminates the inherent conflict of interest within the organization during the downturns in the industry. It also greatly reduces dues, corruption, and wasteful spending.

Also, longevity based pay is a better method of compensation, I'm not convinced it reduces the number of jobs at an airline. Airline staffing usually revolves around management incompetence.

Ben-Hur???

If there were a coherent, sensible argument for these changes instead of the unbelievable cartoon blast of propoganda, there might be an opportunity to rid ourselves of some baggage and capitalize on some opportunities.

But, I think you just burned your bridge to an alpa retirement.


edit-This dynamic of extracurricular income doesn't seem to fit in with the 'controlling' of the dal pilot group very well.

I remember LMoak talking to a few pilots in the ATL lounge during bankruptcy. Someone said 'guys are thinking about going elsewhere', he responded, 'I'm not worried about that, where they gonna go?

Oh noes, there goes my $50,000 oil painting of myself.

If you can fix this alpa/dalpa relationship, I'll paint your picture... for less than $50,000.

How does that fit legally with the railway labor act?

There is no conflict of interest except in the mind's of conspiracy theorists most of whom have never actually tried to lead pilots.

You guys crack me up. Delta pilots control DALPA and ALPA Int'l, but some of the ALPA haters still want to pretend it is somebody else's fault.

We have seen the enemy and it is us.

It's totally legal to do this as long as ALPA national no longer participates in collective bargaining. ALPA's dirty little secret is it absolutely loves the RLA, which has proven to be harmful to our careers.

Total BS. The road ALPA takes not to get sued in almost everything it does is the conflict of interest.

Last I checked we lived in a country that is guided by the rule of law and within that framework unions are obligated to abide by a duty of fair representation of their members.

Here is an honest question, if the Southwest - Airtran merger were ALPA - ALPA, instead of SWAPA vs ALPA, would the Airtran pilots have made out better?

Here they come...

Let's see, how much of our dues(and pwa) goes toward propping up and negotiating for connection carriers. Oh, I forgot, we wouldn't have a job if it weren't for the connection carriers.

Yes, because it was a function of Southwest's management's willingness to play chicken and they have come home roost (see TA).

So in other words, some unions are setup to fight, others are setup to be fair. I have no doubt ALPA is probably the fairest organization that exists today in any industry. However, that's not what anyone here wants to pay for, other than those who draw a salary, or non monetary benefits from ALPA. We want a fighter, not a lover.

Not sure where you got that. I was referring to Southwest Airlines management not SWAPA.

Speak for yourself. Your missive demonstrates clearly that in your case the problem is that you simply don't believe in unionism.

Mesabah, you heretic!

What could LMoak be thinking right now? After all the 'maturity' he helped put into your contract that he never had to live with, with that industry leading retirement.

While he enjoys the free time to pursue his business without the threat of more 'productivity', he is surely wondering why you don't respect true 'union leadership'.

My AIPs speak for me. What say you?

My guess is that he is proud of leading the Delta pilots in avoiding a merger with LCC, to industry-leading on-time contracts and identifying and building the support to confront the number one threat to our careers.

Sounds like a job well-done to me.