Possible TA?
 

Who'd vote to ratify this?

- Split the pay on current positions: 18/3/3/3,
- No change to current PS
- Full retro to January 1st if ratified by end of year
- Accept company 76 seat proposal
- Leave all other AIP's as they stand

Note: mods please sticky

What about vacation and training pay and credit? You might not have heard, but people want significant QOL advancements in this, the best negotiating environment ever. Pay and credit those at 5:15 to get closer to FedEx (but still lag well behind them) and I'd be a Yes. Pay and credit them like the last TA and I'm an easy No.

I don't think you "split" the out years. Maybe you should modify it to 18-5-4-3. Just a thought. Personally I think the AIPs need a "little tweaking," but hey it's your poll.

No thanks


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I agree that vacation/training pay need increased. I could live with 3:45 pay and credit(and maybe higher for training, like 5. shouldn't "lose" money going to training).
But you'd vote for it with 5 hrs. pay for these, but you're an easy NO if its only 3:45??? Your vote changes for 1:30 or so on this pay???? Wow. That's probably less than 3 or 4 % of the value of the increases. Full retro and PS is probably 70K in 2 checks we'd receive in the next 6 months. I'd get over the reduced training/vacation pay if it came to a vote

Close. Increases in training/vacation and DC. Modify the most heinous part of SL. If no other "hidden gems", I'd support it. And I think it would pass memrat.

1:30 more per day of vacation and training is huge.

What part of quality of life do you not understand?

Captain Dickson has promised industry leading work rules and benefits. His position is a joke. Maybe Randy Babbitt can give him some advice.

Given Bastian's almost $4 Billion annually going to the shareholders, the TA you describe is a miserable failure.

Not in the hunt.

I don't like the sick leave as AIPd and I'm not interested in helping out with 76 seaters without a significant reach around (because yes, we are taking it in the behind if we relax scope). Who knows what help the company would want on the wide body end, I'm even less interested in helping there. I said no to your poll and would need a few pretty big tweaks in our favor to make it a yes.

Great post Mike.

We are definately going to bring Bastian instantly into JV scope compliance.

That's a no for me alone, but when we do that the pilots will expect immediate penalties and far larger improvements than our current table position in hourly rates, DC, vacation and training pay.

I'll take that deal with 16% DC Jan 1st and 3:45 pay for vacation. 3:15 credit can stay status quo. Time off has been pretty good. Pay bad. Also accept company proposal for training pay.

This thing can be wrapped up next week with a middle ground proposal like this.

Surprise, surprise, surprise.

Have you ever said yes to anything?

Also, repeat to yourself....Global Protection Trumps Theatre Protection

TVM

I will admit, you were 110% right on TA15. This deal should be much much better as long as we don't over reach and lose TVM

I have no TVM fear. The profits Delta is making and Bastian's $4 Billion in annual returns to the shareholders make full Retro pay mandatory no matter how long this takes.

Any TA without it will fail 80% No.

Sounds like the company has an easy path to yes with voters like me, then, if we're not far apart. You say you could live with 3:45 pay and credit, but the company hasn't even gotten that "generous" in any offerings I've seen (also not reflected in this statistically irrelevant poll).

I don't need more money. My PS check will be adequate as is. Do I WANT more money? Sure, I won't turn that down. But not in the absence of what I DO need, which is more time off and more schedule control. I have no interest in being industry-trailing in these aspects. In other posts, I've offered to accept more weeks of vacation if they want continue paying and crediting it poorly.

I asked my 4 year old if she'd rather have me home more over the next 14 years, or have more money in my bank account. She chose the former, as did my wife.

We will stick this thread for a while.

FWIW - I would not want to speculate on my vote unless I could see and review the whole TA.

Scoop

You need to write your rep then to take only COLA increases (3/3/3/3) and focus only on more days off. Or bid RSV FO on 777/330/764. If you're a commuter all bets are off.

We are not going to get more money and more time off in this environment.

The union is shooting for more pay while maintaining same QOL. If you want to work more more options like vacation sellback will be available.

Well since it is not a big amount, then the company should have no problem leaving their 3:15 credit only stance.

Now is the best negotiating environment we will ever see. If we deal ourselves a handful of concessions and vote yes, shame on us.

You are one "eager" dude. Relax. Stop trying to sell us out, man. For God's sake.

TEN

old habits and all.....:cool:

Spoken like a true Moakist. His doctrine is alive and well. Work more....make more......paid for by gutting QOL. Cost neutral for the company. Ed and Steve thank you for your generous give back on efficiency and productivity. They already have your pension. Next go around it will certainly be the Profit Sharing. All while making billions of dollars for the forseeable future and with a massive training crunch coming. We have leverage that was only dreamed of by airline pilots of the past and we have found a way to concede and pizz it away.

eye watering. isnt it?

What "environment" are you referring to?

Bastian is returning $4 Billion annually to the shareholders.

This is what I don't understand about you guys.

At what point are concessions not necessary?

$8 billion? $18 billion? $80 billion?

NONE OF US EVER COULD HAVE IMAGINED AN AIR LINE BEING THIS PROFITABLE

and you want more concessions and say we can move off our bankruptcy vacation.

i dont get it either.

one would think those guys would be orgasmic over the prospect of substantial and restorative gains in this agreement.......and the galactic give away possibilities it would portend for our next agreement? :D

It's about the whole package, but vacation pay, no credit, is a huge problem for me.

I agree, if we give in and vote in a TA 8 months after amendable date. If you're willing to make a stand for what you and your skills are worth, good things come to those who wait.

you would take 1/1/1/1...anything for a pay raise.

His bidding habits show he's a money guy and couldn't care less about QOL.

Yes if vacation and training come up to at least 3:45 pay AND credit.

Pay no credit increase for vacation is just insulting.

It is 80...vacation without credit towards LCW isn't really vacation, just pay.

Bingo. I had a discussion on how I had to work as much in a vacation month as in a regular month with a higher up not long ago.

"Well, they paid you for it, right?"

"yes, but it's killing me working this hard, too. There comes a point where the money doesn't matter."

"oh."

If I had a choice Lee Moak would be MEC Chair or on Strategic Planning Admin with RH. Brilliant long term and analytical thinkers.

They can have my Pension. The Pension and the DC 401k are the same except risk is shifted to different places. I'd rather take the risk and the money in my own name. Compound interest is wonderful.

I don't follow your other gripes. QOL is remaining the same with more options if you want to work more. I don't expect any changes to PS in the new deal.

That sums it up perfectly. As hard as we work during non vacation months, it should be noticeably different while on vacation. There are so many little items the company has made a stand on. When taken as a whole, it's harder to swallow. Vacation pay AND credit would have been an opportunity for them to show that they value the job we do every month.

I repeatedly contact my reps and inform them of my personal priority - QOL over pay. I agree that we aren't going to get more money AND more time off AND lose billions on fuel hedges AND increase dividends AND spend billions on buybacks. But since we're the only pilots Delta has to choose from, I think unity amongst us could indeed garner more pay and time off. I hold the line on demanding industry-leading pay because I know it's important to my union brethren, and dead-zoners need the cash. I hope a majority hold the line on enhancing QOL since many of us need those gains too.

...And I live in-domicile and will bid wide body FO when I am confident I won't be gone for a week or more at a time.

I had a similar discussion with a management type when I was bumped from the 765 to the 7ER after the merger. He pointed out that I would have plenty of opportunities to pick up more hours to make up the pay difference.

I've now seen it all.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5...wp1yo1_400.gif

i just spit out my coffee.....thankfully for the sake of the pilot group, you are one of a handful of people who are so delusional.

agree 100%

he has strategically parlayed the dues financed finishing school at national into a personally owned and economically rewarding concern.

of course he gets an 'F' on originality.....since his predecessors had already blazed that trail.

Holy crap, Trip. You're out of the envelope and out of control. Recover!

RH is one of the primary reasons we ended up with a contract that had to be rejected in the first place.