So the driver shows up 25 minutes after you call and doesn't load your bags and you're still tipping him/her $1/bag?

The hell outta here. The van shows up on time, or within a reasonable amount of time and loads the bags he gets my tip. A tip isn't guaranteed. It's extra for doing extra.

How often does that happen? I've had maybe two van rides in ten years of 121 and many more Part 135 where I've had to lift my own bags. As to them arriving a bit late, big deal. I'm pretty tired of crews thinking they're some sort of royalty. Get over yourselves.

This is the reason we have an entitlement generation. Giving someone a tip for doing their job, allows them to think they should be rewarded for minimum effort.

Don't feed the animals in the park. They'll become dependent on the food and not hunt for themselves.

How did this conversation turn to SNAP tickets?

Great advice will try thanks.


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When I took a 50% paycut during the downturn, my van drivers suffered too. I stocked up on 50 cent coins. Any bewildered looks were answered with " sorry dude, times are tough. - but nice job, thanks for the ride." Thankfully for everybody involved, one dollar bills are back, but they are not automatic. The tip is still for service of a minimum degree, or reflective of extra efforts. If I'm alone or it's an obvious lengthy journey that mathematically precludes many tip cycles in their day, or if I perceive " stiffing" by others, I usually up the ante.

Good grief, give the driver a buck or 2. No matter how much your pay was cut or how bad an injustice you feel you have suffered, I'm pretty sure the guy relegated to driving the van needs it more than you.

http://i.imgur.com/f7FdEdG.jpg

Assuming a 4 day trip, are some of you really fretting over $6? Fairly certain tipping a minimum wage van driver isn't what is causing societal decay and/or an entitlement generation.

Most van drivers don't make minimum wage. In some cities they start out at $15-16 per hour.

Tip = Appreciation for doing a good job, not for simply doing their job.

Here's an ad for the company that handles our transportation in SFO. Notice the "starting" wage:

https://s30.postimg.org/ih3d2t5c1/Untitled.png

I probably make 1/5 or 1/6 what you make on a yearly basis so $2 each time to me equals $8 per 3 day trip. At 5 trips per month (average) that's $40...about 1 hour of work (1.25% of my total income).

If a driver does a "good" job they get a tip (ie a reward), if not...they just get their salary from their employer for doing their job.

What? It's too much to ask for a hotel that makes thousands and thousands of dollars off us per month to check an app to see when we are there? Yes I expect them to be punctual, it's their job.

Some hotels are ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS there waiting regardless of us being early, late, on time, whatever. Always. Some hotels are never there and are consistently an issue. Why is it that some are there and some are not? Someone is not doing their job. That person isn't getting my money.

I don't expect to be treated like royalty but if you want something above and beyond, which is what a tip is, then at the very least do the job you are assigned.

By the way I very often have to lift my own bags and hotels are not late picking up all that much but it happens, and is usually the same offender(s). I work at a regional, perhaps my hotels are not as regal as yours.

SFO probably not the best example with it's high cost of living, thinking more small'ish mid-size towns. Either way, as someone else said the vast majority of time drivers are courteous, safe and help with bags. When they are late it usually comes with an apology so it is rare for me to even begin to think about withholding a tip.

To each their own I guess.

About 2009 I realized that when I started in this business (in 1997), as a commuter pilot I was tipping a dollar. Figured with inflation, the poor economy in 2009 and the fact I was making like ten times as much, I could raise it to $2. So that's what I tip now.

A tip isn't for above and beyond. It's for a safe ride to and from the airport and for manually moving your bags into and out of the van. The justifications are getting to be funny. I love the post glamorizing the posh lives some of these van drivers are leading. Are you kidding me? As much as many of you pity yourselves it would be really amusing to listen to you if you were trying to get by on what the drivers make in the cities we fly in and out of. I'm out of this discussion. Either you have some class or you don't. By the way, you should be leaving a buck for the maids too.

I'd argue the fast food fatty generation is out of control. I refuse to eat overpriced airport fast food. You enjoy that 10 dollar subway sandwich or big mac though

Yea if they get me there safely, punctually, and load/unload my bags they will get a tip. I consider loading bags above and beyond.

A tip is 10000000% for going above and beyond, it's not automatic and never will be from me.

Settle down with the condescension.

It may not be the driver, but that is who you are stiffing.

When I get back to the hotel and both the desk agent and driver run to the back and eat their mcdonalds I know I made the right decision.

I always ask why they are late. If they have a reason then I'll probably tip them.

Again, do your job and get a tip. If not then you'll get nothing.

Please tip maids, otherwise they clean your toilet with someone's toothbrush. Maybe yours.

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/5e/5e82c...e31a0a4d5e.jpg

I get that, and in general I'm an over tipper especially at restaurants, and a sucker for almost every tip jar anywhere, even on small purchases. What's surprising is how expected it is, to the point of being completely unappreciated. Tipping a dollar for a <$2 coffee is pretty generous; at least act like you appreciate it with a slight head nod or smile. I almost want to reach back in and take it so I can give it again because maybe they didn't notice like Costanza did at the pizza place.

As for van drivers, I think the dollar per person is usually not enough so I'm usually in the 2-5 range, although I guess it depends on what they make overall, if they are driving on a set schedule, their attitude, etc. What grinds my gears more than anything they do is standing there hands folded while you wheel your bags to them and they just look at you like they have no idea how they come apart or how the handle comes down when you know they know how it works. Unless its literally their first aircrew pick up ever, standard crew bag hooks and handle releases shouldn't surprise anyone.

That and the pile of randomly laid out bags with crews literally reaching over each other desperately trying to get their dollar(s) into their hands. Expecting a tip so much that they make you go out of your way to give it is kind of annoying.

I used to carry a bag of candy for all "good" F/As.

"Bad" F/As got double. :D

I'm at the same place as Zap. I never pack food except for an occasional sandwich that gets consumed on the first day. After that if I'm hungry I go get food and insist that nobody in my crew go hungry at any point in the day either. If they can't provide crew meals and yet expect us to just keep flying all day without taking a break for proper nurishment then they've got another thing coming. If this causes a delay, so be it.

Just my two cents, know the local custom. I love watching fat mustachioed capts feverishly shove dollar bills at the drivers in Japan or Interior China. Hey genius, the driver is smiling at you cause you are a dolt in his culture.

Tipping for some people is just a way to show how great of a person the tipper is. Same with refusing to pack a healthy lunch. "Look, I am too cool to carry my lunch" I am no fan of the new generation but at least they aren't wasting their money and are trying to eat healthy. Us older pilots generally are fat and still in debt (look around). Keep tipping $5 every van ride and spending $25 for a fat laden lunch, just remember it doesn't make you a better person. Stop being a tip Nazi if I don't tip the van driver who never left his seat, it's not a taxi cab, it's the shuttle that takes you to the hotel that you then check into and pay to stay there. Van driver does not = waitress.

After reading just a few of the posts in this ridiculous thread, I must say dal is getting exactly what they want from this group.

Pilots actually making a big deal out of tipping and who is better than who, and competing for f/a attention. Laughable.

Your company dumped more and more costs and non-pilot responsibilities on you over the years for the bottom line. And you divide yourselves over a couple bucks, during work, that dal should be responsible for.

Surely you jest? I wouldn't eat most of the "crew" meals even if they were provided to us. Unfortunately, I can't eat turkey or chicken...guess what most of the 1st class meals/for sale items have as the main portion of their meal... The healthy food I bring on a trip is none of your concern.

Are you one of the guys that was all upset when the young punks starting using rollaboards?

Just like they looks like dolts when there over here and constantly bumping into you or in your personal space?

Here is the scenario that makes me shake my head:

At many international stations, the inbound crews are picked up at the airplane and driven to customs, where they disembark, clear, and re-board the bus to go to the hotel.

There are also stations where the outbound the crew is dropped off at the terminal, clears passport control and security, and re-boards to go to the airplane.

So the bus driver has to load the bags, unload them, load them again, and unload them again. With the average crewmember bag tally usually being around four, the driver will have handled a bag 16 times for each of the dozen or so crewmembers by the time they get to the hotel or the airplane.

And what do most crewmembers tip for all of this bag-schlepping?

One US dollar.

Which, as of this morning, was €0.93 or £0.80.

The only reason I tip the driver is because of the social pressure to do it. The expectation of tipping in this or any other context boggles my mind.

I don't bring my own food bag to save money or the company time. It's that I don't want to die of a heart attack from eating unhealthy airport/hotel food the day after I retire. If that is looked down on, then so be it.

Exactly. Tipping is supposed to be for WHEN YOU ARE PLEASED with the service, not because you are "expected" to tip no matter what the situation.

One scenario that infuriates me is when we have to wait on the van 20+ minutes for example (yes, taxi after 30 mins but haven't had to do that yet at the current airline) and the entire crew is in a big huff about it yet some of the ones that are angriest STILL TIP! WTH?!

I make sure to let the van driver know in a polite but firm way how long we've been waiting and then there's no tip from me. Hopefully that gets the point across that they are supposed to be curbside waiting for us.

That said, when they are there waiting for us and the service is good I've been tipping $2. Plus if I remember to I'm leaving a $1 for housekeeping as well.

Delta paid me $255,000 to sit in the right seat of a narrowbody last year.

I tip every time.

But I also take the cab rather quickly. And tip that guy.

I tipped everytime when I made $16,000 gross flying a Embraer Brakillia out of the swamps of Houston to the swamps of... Houston. We had some short legs. $2.15 was my pay I believe for IAH-HOU. So the van driver got half.

What does your personal income have to do with how much you tip? Should this now apply to restaurants too. I don't know about you but at restaurants I tip based on service and and the bill total.

So, you're saying you tip the van driver even when you get in on schedule at midnight for example but are waiting curbside for 20 mins to get to a hotel that's less than 10 mins away?

If the answer is yes, you're only reinforcing bad behavior and an expectation of a tip even when their job is not performed properly.

Some of the crew meals at airline #2 were not so yummy, but the ones at my last carrier were actually pretty good (and you can probably safely classify me as a "foodie") for that matter.

You're right, the healthy (or unhealthy or whatever) food you bring on your trip should be of no one else's concern and good for you for not playing into the blatant raping of the traveling public by the airport concessions and their insane prices which have skyrocketed the last five years or so.

I wish I was more motivated to pack some healthy food for my trips but being a single guy that's constantly on the go outside of work I never really do.

My original point was that even at my first airline (a regional) we had a policy of calling in unscheduled "crew breaks" to ops when we needed a break to get food. I'll be damned if any airline is going to run me so ragged as to not take a delay if myself or my crew need nourishment if they're not going to provide some decent crew meals or meals from the aircraft galley (which for us is not an option).

As for rollaboards, I've never know anything else so I'm not old enough to be upset about them but certainly old enough to be upset about the backpacks.

It appears that battle has been lost. FOMs now have policies permitting backpacks, companies are making flight crew backpacks, and I can spot pilots of all generations with them in the terminal.

But just like tipping, the number of bags and types of bags someone uses isn't important. If people honestly get this upset and entrenched in matters like this, I don't see how they could make it to the end of a day and still be able to smile.

Dad started driving hotel vans on the side when the mill cut his hours. He went full time for two different hotels when the mill shut down. For 27 years he worked 18 hrs a day driving vans and putting six kids through college on well earned tip money. Mom would ride shotgun just to talk to him and then she'd throw bags in the worst weather. (She was tough; youngest brother came out sideways on the kitchen table; she never even whimpered and she made her shift at the diner.) They got two surgeons, a pilot, an engineer, a professor, and an exotic dancer for kids. They done good and they did it with tip money (and a keen eye in the futures market). We buried Dad the way he lived - sitting up with two hands on the wheel.

I'll agree with you that the prices in airports are a little out of control. However, my guess is they're paying extra fees for having a store in an airport, that they wouldn't have if they were a stand alone operation down the street. That said, I can eat relatively healthy for less than my days per diem. Some airports are easier than others...thanks a lot California! :mad:

Ya man, it's a pain at times. I'm single, with a mil job and rental properties...I get being on the go. My motivation kicks in every time I walk down the concourse and see an old airline guy with his gut hanging over his belt, and his jacket unbuttoned.

100% agreed. If i'm hungry, and I don't have food, I stop and eat. Even with an hour turn, I can usually do this without rushing or being late. If it does cause us to be late, so be it.

Ha, that was most definitely in jest. However, I'm ok with a backpack as long it's attach to your rollaboard (...not on your shoulder). They generally hold way more than any "crew" bag and are great for excursions/hikes on long layovers.

I agree they are responsible for it, at least when they have to arrange transportation. For actual hotel vans, the hotel is responsible for it. In many cases of contracted transportation, the company does include tips. Ever accidentally tip on a restaurant tab even though it was pre-included (usually 18%) even for small groups? We do that a lot too.

Several years ago went out to lunch with the captain. The place we chose offered 20% discount to crew members. Both of us left our ID's at the hotel. The server stated no ID = no discount. The captain spent ten minutes essentially bullying her to the point of being annoying. She finally caved and agreed to give us the 20% discount.

Upon finishing his entire meal, plate clean, everything devoured the captain declared to me his meal was unsatisfactory and would not be leaving her a tip. I kept quiet and left more than enough tip to cover both of us.

I nominate this the most pathetic thread award.